# Rubrikat > Emigracioni >  Grekët: Shqiptarja mos prekë flamurin

## zeus

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Grekët kanë vendosur të bëjnë gjithçka për të mos lejuar asnjë shqiptar të prekë flamurin e tyre. Ashtu si një vit më parë, një nxënëse shqiptare që mëson në një gjimnaz në Akaia të Peloponezit, është përballur dje me protestat e grekëve kundër mbajtjes së flamurit nga vajza në ditën e festës kombëtare greke. Solina Metushi, e cila jeton prej dhjetë vjetësh në Greqi, është caktuar pak ditë më parë nga këshilli drejtues i shkollës për të mbajtur flamurin grek në ditën e paradës, më 28 tetor. Por, nuk kanë qenë aspak dakord me këtë bashkëmoshatarët e saj, të cilët kanë protestuar, e madje kanë ndërprerë edhe mësimin për të kërkuar heqjen e privilegjit. Nxënësit kanë deklaruar se nuk do të lejojnë që një shqiptare të mbajë flamurin grek, pasi të afërmit e tyre kanë derdhur gjak në luftë me ta. Ata kanë pohuar se do të vazhdojnë të bojkotojnë mësimin në rast se nuk do të merret një vendim i ri për të rrëzuar atë të publikuar tashmë. Ky nuk është rasti i parë i ksenofobisë në Greqinë fqinje. Vetëm një vit më parë, 15-vjeçari shqiptar Odise Cenaj u përball gjithashtu me protestat e bashkëmoshatarëve të tij grekë për të mos mbajtur flamurin në ditën e festës kombëtare. Cenaj u detyrua të hiqte dorë nga mbajtja e flamurit gjatë paradës, pas presioneve të shumta nga shokët e shkollës. Ndërsa një situatë edhe më e keqe u krijua vjet në një gjimnaz në Kalithea të Athinës, ku 16-vjeçarja Maria Kendella parakaloi me flamurin helen, por u sulmua nga një grup ekstremistësh grekë të organizatës "Agimi i Artë". Kësaj here rikthimi i ksenofobisë i ka shqetësuar tej mase autoritetet e prefekturës, të cilat janë mbledhur urgjent për të shqyrtuar këtë çështje. Ata kanë rikujtuar ligjin grek, sipas të cilit nxënësit më të mirë të shkollës duhet të mbajnë flamurin grek në ditën e paradës dhe në këtë pikë nxënësit nuk kanë dallim nga njëri-tjetri. Ndaj ngjarjes së fundit ka reaguar edhe ministrja e Arsimit e Greqisë, Marieta Ianaku, e cila ka deklaruar se "flamuri nderon flamurtarin dhe jo flamurtari flamurin". Ministrja ka deklaruar se vajza shqiptare ka të drejtë ta mbajë flamurin dhe se autoritetet greke do të angazhohen plotësisht për të zbatuar kartën e të drejtave të njeriut.

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## Wordless

U bë bozë kjo puna e flamurit ... !!!

Nqs s'duan te preke flamurin Grek le te parakaloje
me flamurin Shqiptar!

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## [xeni]

Qendrim shume idiot...
ç'paskan qene keta greket re....

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## dodoni

Shqiptarëve nuk ju vjen mirë po të jenë të detyruar të parakalojnë me flamuj të huaj se për të parakaluar me flamuj tjerë as që ju intereson fare. Nëse shqiptarët duan të nderojnë flamuj atëherë nderojnë flamurin e tyre e jo flamuj të huaj. 

Shumë mirë paskan bërë grekët në këtë rast sepse shqiptarët nuk kanë pse të parakalojnë me flamuj grekë. Nëse shqiptarët duhet të parakalojnë me flamuj atëherë le të parakalojnë me flamur të tyre, flamurin shqiptar.

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## StormAngel

Politike e pare e Grekeve.
Me demek qe nje shqiptare po mbajti flamurin e tyre ua ul vlerat kombetare te cilet as qe i kane.
Pune greku

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## Dito

Ky eshte nacionalizmi i terbuar dhe orthodhoksia ekstremiste, kaq ju mjafton besoj.

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## GL_Branch

oo Greket dhihen pas shqiptareve , atehere kan qene te okupuar Kosova , Maqedonia...etj , e tash nuk jane me 3.5 milion shqiptar poor 7 milion vetem ne Ballkan , ata neve na kan friken......Me kalimin e kohes kan me pa ata veten se ku do te dalin  :djall sarkastik:   :i qetë:

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## Hyllien

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Grekët kanë vendosur të bëjnë gjithçka për të mos lejuar asnjë shqiptar të prekë flamurin e tyre. Ashtu si një vit më parë, një nxënëse shqiptare që mëson në një gjimnaz në Akaia të Peloponezit, është përballur dje me protestat e grekëve kundër mbajtjes së flamurit nga vajza në ditën e festës kombëtare greke. Solina Metushi, e cila jeton prej dhjetë vjetësh në Greqi, është caktuar pak ditë më parë nga këshilli drejtues i shkollës për të mbajtur flamurin grek në ditën e paradës, më 28 tetor. Por, nuk kanë qenë aspak dakord me këtë bashkëmoshatarët e saj, të cilët kanë protestuar, e madje kanë ndërprerë edhe mësimin për të kërkuar heqjen e privilegjit. Nxënësit kanë deklaruar se nuk do të lejojnë që një shqiptare të mbajë flamurin grek, pasi të afërmit e tyre kanë derdhur gjak në luftë me ta. Ata kanë pohuar se do të vazhdojnë të bojkotojnë mësimin në rast se nuk do të merret një vendim i ri për të rrëzuar atë të publikuar tashmë. Ky nuk është rasti i parë i ksenofobisë në Greqinë fqinje. Vetëm një vit më parë, 15-vjeçari shqiptar Odise Cenaj u përball gjithashtu me protestat e bashkëmoshatarëve të tij grekë për të mos mbajtur flamurin në ditën e festës kombëtare. Cenaj u detyrua të hiqte dorë nga mbajtja e flamurit gjatë paradës, pas presioneve të shumta nga shokët e shkollës. Ndërsa një situatë edhe më e keqe u krijua vjet në një gjimnaz në Kalithea të Athinës, ku 16-vjeçarja Maria Kendella parakaloi me flamurin helen, por u sulmua nga një grup ekstremistësh grekë të organizatës "Agimi i Artë". Kësaj here rikthimi i ksenofobisë i ka shqetësuar tej mase autoritetet e prefekturës, të cilat janë mbledhur urgjent për të shqyrtuar këtë çështje. Ata kanë rikujtuar ligjin grek, sipas të cilit nxënësit më të mirë të shkollës duhet të mbajnë flamurin grek në ditën e paradës dhe në këtë pikë nxënësit nuk kanë dallim nga njëri-tjetri. Ndaj ngjarjes së fundit ka reaguar edhe ministrja e Arsimit e Greqisë, Marieta Ianaku, e cila ka deklaruar se "flamuri nderon flamurtarin dhe jo flamurtari flamurin". Ministrja ka deklaruar se vajza shqiptare ka të drejtë ta mbajë flamurin dhe se autoritetet greke do të angazhohen plotësisht për të zbatuar kartën e të drejtave të njeriut.
> 
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Ne shkollen Baccalaureate School fo Global Education, nje nga shkollat me prestigjoze qe i perket sistemit nderkombetar Baccalaureate pati nje incident te ngjashem. Kjo shkolle gjendet ne Astoria, lagje komplet Greke kryesisht por qe ka dhe Shqiptare... dihet tashme dashuria e madhe e jona per ket rrace qe kemi. Nesje, cfare ndodhi ishte se ne nje klase historie, pasi nxenesit mesuan rreth 1 muaj per kulturen greke e gjera te ngjashme, mesuesja kesaj rradhe vendosi te jepte "anen tjeter te medialies" dhe futi ne syllabus librin e te mirenjohurit Martin Bernal, Black Athena, e cila flet per rrenjet e thella afro-aziatike te asaj qe ne sot quajme eskluzivisht kulture Helene. Cfare te ndodhe ? Ndodhi qe kur kalamoqat shkuan tek shpia te babi dhe mami greko-amerikan i thane te shqetesuar se cfare eshte ky liber qe po na mesohet. Me vrap u organizuan Greko-Amerikanet me nje peticion KUNDRA DIJES. Ne vend qe te nderrmarin ndonje punim akademik kundra vellimeve te Martin Bernal, qe deri tani ka pasur oponence vetem nga nje grup stuiesish te Wellesley University(qe perseri ne 1999 Bernal dhe nje kunderpergjigje ME NJE LIBER TE TERE TJETER, keta bejne peticione kundra mesimit, kundra mesuesve... edhe ketu ne Amerike... edhe pse kam dyshimet e mia se kendej jane me te semure se ata andej, por thjesht nuk ja mban te bejne dicka qofte prej policise e qofte prej faktit se ne cdo cep te NY flitet shqip, qofte dhe ne Harlem.

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## LeNNoN

Amon mo mi permendi mo kta greket se i kom hal n'sy ... si honeps dot  :ngerdheshje: 
histroin e nje shqiptarje ne greqi e dini ju ?
doli me e mira ne shkolle dhe ngriti flamurin shqiptar...ksaj i them burrni un!  :buzeqeshje: 




Ju Pershendes!
LeNNoN

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## Leila

A ka njerez me me fiksime se sa Greket?

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## KoTeLja_VL

Te jene vetem me fiksime mire do ishte ... po kane edhe shume 
gjera te tjera qe nuk honepsen dot fare.

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## Clauss

ca kohe me pare u mora pak me black athena project (yeah ...) lol dhe rastesisht rashe mbi ca papers, te cilat ishin kundershtimet/arsyetimet  nga akdemike/arkeologe/bla-bla mbi te thenat/arsyetimet e librit. nja 6 cope. atje u binda qe ky eshte nje komplit anglo-greko-masonisto-cifuto-komunist se ndryshe nuk shpjegohet si mund ti hedhin poshte atp qe thote ai liber .. kjo bibel e vertete e dijes. lol mund ti gjeni ne google me pak kerkim.  dhe pastaj secili gjykon vete pasi te kete lexuar te dyja anet. interesant si liber .. vetem qe e kishte kapakun te zeza .. pse valle? s'arrij te bej dot lidhjen .. hahahah
sa per flamurin e dime historine , cdo 28/10 e cdo 25/5 kete pune kemi. vetem qe , si cbehet zakonisht ne mme & sia, sillen ne siperfaqe rastet qe "shesin". asnje nuk flet per ata qe aktualisht e mbajne flamurin: nje reportaz i nje tv vjet-parvjet me ceshtjen Canaj (sic!) tregoi gjithe shqiptaret,polaket, kameruanezet , ruset etc qe mbajne flamuret e u thone bravo. fatkeqesisht lajme te tilla nuk "shesin".  fatkeqeisht ka dhe shume koq.. kandari qe merren akoma me flamure,ngjyren e lekures, ngjyren e flokeve, a ka zbokth apo jo,me prejardhjen etc etc dhe harrojne njeriun. me gjithe fiksimet e tij nekuptohet. hahah 
 e meriton? e meriton.  ehe, atehere po te doje le ta mbaje. dhe mesa degjova une do ta mbaje. cdo vit kete pune .. dal te kerkoj pak temat mbi Cenai te shikoj cfare shkruahet ate .. mos kemi ndonje copy-paste .. lol 
njerez jemi te gjithe me fiksime, ca me shume, ca me pak (a, leila,what's your favorite scary movie? ). who cares? mostly those who are very far away .. lol se personalisht mua qe jam ketu afer as me pelcet fare.  le te vene dhe breket ne koke po te duan. sa te tjere ka.. shume Kilo. une mendoj qe problemi i vertete sic eshte shkruar shume here ne mediat ketu, nuk eshte kush apo pse e mban flamurin, por mbajtja akoma gjalle e ketyre paradave-farsa qe i perkasin kohes se po.. dhe behen akome me ritualitetit dhe zyrtaritetin me te madh ne nje   shtet te EU te 2004. kjo eshte tragjikja e kesaj me duket. gjithmone per mendimin tim.. 
peace

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## Wordless

MYTH #7

Are the Greeks "still" Indo-European? Were they ever?
Modern Greeks do not descend predominantly from Indo-Europeans. It is silly to talk about whether or not the Greeks are "any longer" Indo-European, since the people living within the geographic boundaries of Greece were at no time predominantly Indo-European by ancestry. However, the aristocracy of classical Greece would indeed have derived from Indo-Europeans. John V. Day notes that: 

Indo-Europeans often seem to have been small minorities in the countries they penetrated: the Celtic warrior-class in Ireland; the Roman patricians; the few Homeric heroes and the so-called "pure Greeks" of later years; and the Aryans battling against the many natives in India. 
According to Peterson, the Greek aristocracy were seperated by "caste-like stratification . . . from the freemen and slave classes among whom the genetic influence of the autochthonous 'Pelasgian' population may have predominated" (Peterson 1974). 

Also keep in mind, Greeks have 28% Near Eastern HG9 and 28% North African HG21. I'd expect most of this ancestry to stem from the Neolithic, but it is curious that RM doesn't interpret this data to mean Greeks are 56% "Hamito-Semitic" and therefore very much less than "pure" European. As Day (2002) says: "Genetically, Greek and Yugoslav populations are among the least typically 'European.'" 

Update: In fact, new research is suggesting that much of the "Neolithic" ancestry in Greece represents gene flow from after the Neolithic. 




Demosthenes (c. 386-322 B.C.) "distinguished orator and Athenian patriot of the wealthy landowning Attic deme of Paeania." 


Alkaios (c. 620-595 B.C.) "a member of the Aeolic nobility." 


Xenophon (c. 430-354 B.C.) "the member of a minor aristocratic Athenian family." 



Thucydides (c. 460-400 B.C.), "Historian and general of noble Attic blood on his father's side and aristocratic Thracian blood through his mother." 



Euripides (c. 480-406 B.C.) "scion of a Salamis landowning family." Euripides "had a fair and freckled complexion." 


Socrates (c. 469-399 B.C.) Not an aristoi. Stone cutter son of a sculptor and a midwife. Middle class. Alpine racial type. 

Greek Aristoi
Members of aristocratic families are vastly overrepresented among notable Greeks of the classical period. Thus, when discussing the racial type of ancient "Greeks", it is important to consider the racial type of the aristocracy. 

From the point of view of physical anthropology the ethnic complexity of Greek society during the first millennium B.C. prohibits any attempt at a generalized statement of physical type based upon statistical averages of data derived from the available skeletal material. Substantial caste-like stratification, accompanied by relatively strict principles of caste endogamy separated the Indo-European-derived Eupatrids from the freemen and slave classes among whom the genetic influence of the autochthonous 'Pelasgian' population may have predominated. (Peterson 1974) 
Peterson notes that IE languages eventually came to be spoken by racially and genetically diverse peoples, but he suggests: 

In the course of some five or six millennia of expansion and conquest, an expanding IE upper caste may undoubtedly have preserved a high degree of genetic continuity (Pearson, 1974), while simply superimposing itself upon the autochthonous populations. Those who brought Indo-European speech into the newly-colonized territories became a ruling warrior nobility, as testified by the connotation 'noble' for arya in India and Persia, ariothez, in Greece (hence our 'aristocracy') and aire among the Celtic peoples. Indeed, the evidence-indicates that to a greater or lesser extent the invading arya, art, or aire maintained strict principles of endogamy in the choice of their official wives, and although in many areas they appear to have made a disproportionately high contribution to the gene pool of the indigenous population through the practice of keeping large numbers of concubines, they differed from the Uralic and Semitic peoples in their refusal to grant the illegitimate offspring of such marriages the social status of the father. Thus so far as legitimate offspring were concerned, in aristocratic Greek society, as in most early historic I.E. societies, the strict endogamy of the conquering classes was evidenced by the admission that 'we choose our wives like we choose our horses: by the lengths of their pedigrees'  and the high respect in which the Greeks held their horses is well known! 
According to Peterson: 

The fact that the immigrant Indo-Europeans had a clear-cut conception of what they regarded as their own distinctive and characteristic physiognomy  which would have been preserved and even accentuated by close inbreeding  is amply evidenced by Greek literature. Thus in the Odyssey (XII, 222) we undersland that the disguised Athena was described as being 'delicate ol countenance such as are the sons of kings', whereas in the Iliad (II, 216) Thersites, of autochthonous origin, is described as 'ill-formed and warped of head'. . . . 

Coon mentions: 

Villains, comical characters, satyrs, centaurs, giants, and all unpleasant people and those not to be admired, are often shown in sculpture and in vase painting as broad-faced, snub-nosed, and heavily bearded. Socrates, who belonged to this type, was maliciously compared to a satyr. This type may still be found its Greece, and is an ordinary Alpine. In the early skeletal, remains it is represented by some of the brachycephalic crania. 
Socrates, son of a sculptor and a midwife, was not an aristocrat. The fact that his physical type was scorned by the aristocracy suggests that aristocrats were not Alpines, certainly not unmixed Alpines. Coon also notes that "The racial type to which Socrates belonged [a racial type not favored by the Indo-European elite] is today the most important" racial type in Greece. 

Peterson suggests: 

. . . as a potential supplement to the study of the incomplete skeletal remains, . . . the possible utility of a detailed analysis of the surviving Greek portraits, busts, herms and sculptures of all kinds, classified according to the historically verifiable tribal and family background of the individual portrayed. Such a classification becomes important in view of the generally accepted view that throughout the first millennium B.C., the population of the Aegean remained subdivided into a number of genetic isolates, instead of representing a simple homogenous Mendelian population. 

The Greeks shown above and right, descendants of ancient aristocratic families, illustrate Indo-European features. 

Needless to say, today you're more likely to see people who resemble the above in England or Sweden than in Greece. Coon affirms: 

. . . one is impressed, after looking at the portrait busts of Athenians, and the clay masks of Spartans, with their resemblance to present-day western Europeans. This resemblance becomes less marked in the art of the Byzantines, however, where modern near Eastern faces are more frequent; but the Byzantines lived mostly outside of Greece. 
Peterson reports that by "the period of Roman domination . . . the old god-descended aristoi were virtually extinct". 

Angel (1945) confirms the presence of Nordic-Iranian types among the Iron age invaders of Greece, and their continuation as a minority in Athens into Classical times. His data also suggest the presence of "Corded Nordic and Nordic-Alpine" types among the earlier, Bronze age invaders, and Angel mentions a Late Helladic Nordic-Iranian Mycenaean Athenian, who "without much doubt . . . was a warrior". Nordic-Iranian types were present in Athens even into Late Hellenistic times, but, interestingly, Angel classifies none of the Roman period or later skulls from Athens as Nordic-Iranian. 

Demosthenes (pictured above) inherited 84,000 drachmai from his father, whose "estate gives us some idea of the property of the top 300 citizens in the fourth century" (Webster 1973, 44). By contrast, "ninety per cent of the citizens were in the income range 180-480 drachmai", and "citizens, metics, and slaves worked side by side in the silver mines and were paid the same wage" (46). 

The lower strata of citizens likely would have been of autochthonous (rather than Indo-European) origin. 317 BC census figures for Athens show 12,000 citizens in lowest class (thetes), 8,000 in the middle (hoplite) class, and 1,000 in the top two classes. So, obviously, the upper classes were greatly outnumbered by their fellow citizens, to say nothing of slaves and metics. 

The aristocracy were a small, isolated segment of the population, and many aristocratic families practiced cremation "well into the Classical period" (Peterson 1974), severely limiting the usefulness of skeletal evidence in discussing the racial type of the aristocracy. But the evidence mentioned above is consistent with the idea that Nordic types would have been greatly overrepresented in the aristocracy, just as portraits suggest they were. 

Incidentally, the practice of cremation is itself a clue. 

. . . cremation . . . was associated with pastoral-nomadic Nordic populations, for whom the soul might roam free in death as in life. Thus, the introduction of cremation into Greece was taken by many scholars as indicating the arrival of a new Nordic and nomadic population . . . (Hall 1997, 116) 
Whether cremation was introduced by some unknown, generalized "'northern elements'", or specifically by "Dorian descendants of the cremation-practising Urnfield populations who occupied Illyria and Bosnia in the Late Bronze Age" (Hall 1997, 116-117), it is clear that cremation as practiced by the Greek aristocracy had its origin among Nordics. 


This 4th c. BC mosaic from Pella, Macedonia, illustrates Hellenic pigmentation. As Coon points out, "blondism among the Greeks is mostly Nordic in origin". Original Hellenic features may have persisted longer in Macedonia than in other parts of the Greek world, but there is reason to believe such features would have been largely preserved throughout the Greek aristocracy into relatively late times. 
As for pigmentation, Coon (1939) tells us: 

Greek literature and Greek art furnish an abundance of evidence as to the pigmentation and the characteristic facial features of the ancient inhabitants of Hellas. The Olympian gods, ancestors of the semi-heroes, were for the most part blond, with ivory shins and golden hair. Athene was gray eyed. Poseidon, however, was black haired [Note: Poseidon was derived from a pre-IE Mediterranean deity]. These gods were little different if we may believe Homer, from their descendants the heroes, most of whom were white limbed and golden haired. 
Day (2002) finds that: 
Useful information about real rather than fictional Greeks comes from Polemon, the second most important Greek writer on physiognomy, who wrote as late as the second century A.D. Polemon explains that "the pure Greek" of his time has fair skin and red hair, and resembles the man inclined to literature and philosophy, who has fair skin and fairish hair. Polemon may have drawn these ideas from Pseudo-Aristotle, the most important Greek physiognomist, who in his third century B.C. Physiognomica declares that the most perfect male type is the lion with its fair mane. 
According to Angel, "Nordic-Iranians were tall and muscular, strong-necked, and probably included tawny-haired blue- or green-eyed blonds as well as brunets." Angel also mentions the "noteworthy resemblances" of this type "to Anglo-Saxons" and the partial "northwestern relations of this Greek type". 

Modern Greeks are overwhelmingly dark-haired and rarely fair-skinned. 


Have the Greeks changed since antiquity?
Of course. The old aristocracy, responsible for much of the greatness of ancient Greece, certainly no longer exists. That, in itself, is a big enough change. Even the peasants have changed, though the exact degree to which the Greek goatherd of today is descended from the ancient Greek goatherd is an open question. 

Everyone knows about the major Slavic and Albanian influxes into Greece. As Paul Theroux puts it: 

The Greeks had not taken very much interest in their past until Europeans became enthusiastic discoverers and diggers of their ruins. And why should they have cared? The Greeks were not Greek, but rather the illiterate descendants of Slavs and Albanian fishermen, who spoke a debased Greek dialect and had little interest in the broken columns and temples except as places to graze their sheep. (Pillars of Hercules, 315-316) 
Given the movement of large numbers of Greeks into Anatolia during the Byzantine era, and the movements of Albanians and Slavs into Greece, it is always possible that a given Turk has as much or more classical Greek ancestry as a given modern Greek. And, there is always the strong possibility of a Turkic contribution to the Greek gene pool. 

There has been gene flow into Greece from from Negroids and Mongoloids (see below), the extent of which is not easy to quantify at this time. However, absorption of genes from the Near East and North Africa likely happened on a much larger scale than the absorption of non-Caucasoid genes; and this recent non-European Caucasoid admixture may be more significant than non-Caucasoid admixture when discussing changes in the racial character of the Greek nation. Richards et al. (2002) find a "very high frequency (~20%) of recent gene flow" in eastern Mediterranean Europe. 



Ancient vs. Modern: Dienekes Pontikos thinks these images are somehow equivalent. In fact, he's implied he believes the ancient Greek depicted here is "swarthier" than the modern "Greek". Personally, I don't consider a sun tan to be the same thing as obvious non-European ancestry. 
The Near Easterners form a clear group, distinct from Europeans. The central and eastern Mediterranean populations of Europe, along with southeastern Europe, although positioned more closely to the other European populations, also show affinities with the Near East, but western Mediterranean Europe clusters with central and northern Europe. . . . 

The southeast-northwest clines in classical marker frequencies have been interpreted, by comparison with radiocarbon evidence, as representing a substantial demic diffusion of Near Eastern farming communities into Europe in the early Neolithic period (Sokal et al. 1991; Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). However, the pattern in mtDNA haplogroup frequencies that we see here indicates similarity between Europeans and Near Easterners primarily in southeastern Europe and along the Mediterranean, whereas archaeological evidence would point to the main expansion of agriculture being into central Europe (Bogucki 2000; Price 2000). Thus, it seems rather unlikely that the pattern in mtDNA haplogroup frequencies could have been generated mainly by a Neolithic expansion. . . . 

The second PC of Y chromosome variation accounts for 26% of the variation, and it clusters most European regions at one pole while grouping the Near East at the other, with eastern Mediterranean and central Mediterranean Europe between the two poles. The main contributors to the gradients are haplogroups E and J (formerly haplogroups 21 and 9, both of which are frequent in the Near East) and, again, R* and N3 (both of which are more frequent in Europe). This points to gene flow from the Near East, as suggested by both Cavalli-Sforza et al. (1994) and Semino et al. (2000). Haplogroup J in Europe is interpreted more specifically by Semino et al. (2000) as the result of Neolithic dispersal. Curiously, however, haplogroups E and J are again most frequent along the Mediterranean coastline and rapidly dwindle as one moves into central Europe, where the archaeological record tells us the main farming expansion took place. 

Founder analysis of mtDNA in Europe (Richards et al. 2000) can suggest a possible explanation for this pattern: it might be due, at least in part, to substantial recent (post-Neolithic) gene flow, rather than solely to Neolithic expansion. This mtDNA founder analysis, based on the comparison of matching sequence types (within haplogroups) between Europe and the Near East, suggested that there is no one-to-one correlation between migrations and major clades. The analysis for eastern Mediterranean Europe indicated a very high frequency (~20%) of recent gene flow, as compared with only ~10% Neolithic input. . . . 

Angel (1945) sees evidence of an immigration trend, continuing from Roman times through Byzantine times and later, that brought Mediterranean, Eastern Alpine, and Armenoid elements [from the Near East, one presumes] by sea, and [Slavic speaking, in Byzantine times] Alpine and Dinaric elements from the north. Angel also believes that in Classical times, Athens absorbed a large population of slaves and metics. 

Obviously, the Greek gene pool has received a great deal of outside input, which makes sense, based on Greece's location and history. Angel tries to stress the continuity of the Athenian people, but it's hard to see what's so continuous about an originally Mediterranean population which today is brachycephalic and largely Alpine, and in which an important minority racial element of earlier times has essentially disappeared. 



Pete Sampras. So, have the Greeks "changed since antiquity"? You tell me. (Note that while Sampras is apparently a quarter Jewish, I am assured by certain Greeks that he is entirely modern Greek in appearance.) 
Greek anthroplogist Aris Poulianos purports to show "the incessant biological continuity of the Greeks all through the historic and prehistoric epochs, which refer at least to the Mesolithic and Upper Palaeolithic periods (15.000-30.000 years)." I have not read Poulianos's work, but, some of his claims do not seem credible, such as "continuity is . . . proved by the comparison of measurements of the contemporary inhabitants with those of the ancient skulls of Greece, which statistically show no differences" [this claim is absurd; as Angel's work shows, the racial composition of Greece has changed quite markedly over time]. Still, I am prepared to believe that Greeks of today reflect, for the most part, racial types present in the Balkans or Aegean since well before the IE invasions. Whether the gene pool is predominantly Mesolithic and older is another question (some genetic studies suggest Greeks are mostly Neolithic, and Greeks certainly have among the highest levels of Neolithic and later ancestry in Europe). 

Poulianos's chief aim seems to have been to refute Fallmerayer's theory that modern Greeks are mostly descended from Slavs and Albanians. However: 

The same study indicated that the Albanian-speaking, Slav-speaking (Monte Negro included) as well as Valaches (Vlachi) of the greater Macedonian region are in their majority also autochthonous and therefore the influences from abroad mainly concerns the adoption of the chronologically younger languages, which are in use today. 
If this is the case, then it seems Poulianos can prove nothing about the degree to which Byzantine-era Slavic-speakers contributed to the modern Greek population. Whether or not these Slavic-speakers had predominantly autochthonous origins in the Balkans is irrelevant. They were still not the same people as the ancient Greeks. As well, looking at averages for the population as a whole obscures the fact that a disproportionate share of Greek contributions came from a numerically unimportant, genetically isolated, and racially distinct minority. 

Angel mentions "Blegen's model of fusion of diverse material, social, and even psychological elements to form the culture of Classical Athens". Blegens is to some degree correct that Athenian cultural achievement came from a fusion of cultures. But, the key elements that seperated Greek thought and achievement from those of earlier civilizations originated with the Indo-Europeans: 

While Egyptians and Babylonians collected a great deal of information about mathematics and astronomy and practiced impressive engineering on a grand scale, their "sciences" never had a really scientific basis. Their knowledge existed either as the lore collected by the priests or as the products of practical trial-and-error. Only the Indo-European Greeks actually systematized scientific and mathematical knowledge, and they were able to construct it into a system because the system itself was their concept of a Cosmic Order in which all events and phenomena were related through causality and its inexorable linkages of one event and phenomenon to another. . . . 

"It is no accident," wrote V. Gordon Childe, "that the first great advances towards abstract natural science were made by the Aryan Greeks and the Hindus, not by the Babylonians or the Egyptians, despite their great material resources and their surprising progress in techniques  in astronomical observation for example. . . ." (Clark 1996) 

Inspired by Blegen's model of the fusion of cultures, Angel looks to blending of racial types as "one of the real and probably indispensable little factors which help produce a great people and which underlie the whole history of civilization." What this theory ignores is the major role played by the endogamous aristocracy in Greek achievement. Since Classical times, Greece has received even more outside genetic input and has become even more blended. If this is the key to greatness, why has Greece been going downhill since the Classical age? 

Murphy (1941) takes a similar view to Angel's, but acknowledges another factor: 

. . . which can be deduced from Darwin's work in general and which later researches have brought more into the light. It appears that the human racial crossings which produce the most marked instances of efflorescence in genius and ability, take place among the varieties which are comparatively akin to each other and that, on the contrary, where the varieties which hybridize are distant from each other in type . . . there is a deficiency in the production of superior ability. 
Murphy mentions "conquering hordes . . . from the Eurasian steppes" settling the Fertile Crescent and "creating a highly developed civilization"; and he mentions a process "'seen in ancient Greece or the Florentine Renaissance; first a migration of peoples (immigration of strong, warlike races), then, for centuries, a relative intellectual calm, and, finally, a period of abundant genius.'" It's not clear why those events should be explained in terms of blending of racial types, rather than in say, the blending of cultures, the imposition of important elements of the invading cultures on the new lands, or the acquisition by the "warlike races" of resources which allow them to fulfill their innate potential. Murphy does suggest that "mingling of the successive waves of immigrants" may be more important than "the crossing of the invading people with aborigines". 

It would certainly seem that the composition of the immigrants is of key importance, regardless of whether or not "hybrid vigor" plays some role. These periods of greatness were invariably followed by periods of decline or mediocrity, accompanied by continuing or increased blending of racial elements. Wave after wave of Alpines and Mediterraneans continued to arrive in Greece from Roman times onward. But blending with these new arrivals never produced an "efflorescence". If one wishes to look at Greek history in racial terms, one must consider that the aristocracy of the invading "warlike race" maintained itself relatively unchanged into the Classical age. This aristocracy was intact during and contributed greatly to the peak of Greek civilization. By the time complete mediocrity set in, the aristocracy had all but disappeared. Lundman confirms that: 

The racial structure of the old historical European peoples - the Greeks, Romans, and Celts - has been treated at length in my book Geographische Anthropologie (1967). Certainly, these peoples had, at least in their upper social strata, stronger Nordic components than the present inhabitants of these lands. 
Roger Pearson (1991) has suggested the possibility that "Europe has suffered a severe dysgenic decline over the past two thousand years". If this is true, Greece, which today has perhaps the lowest average IQ in Europe, may have been particularly hard hit. On the other hand, it may well be that only the elites of ancient Greece were exceptionally intelligent. And, when the elites were absorbed by the much more numerous masses, the intellectual power of Greece was dissipated. 



Negroids in ancient Greece

An Ethiopian living in Greece in the 1st century A.D. "Memnon, Ethiopian favorite of Sophist Herodes Atticus" 
RM claims: 

"Theres no evidence that blacks were at all present in Ancient Greece" 
The above statement is blatantly false. 

In his book Race, John R. Baker writes that: 

Evans provides a few pictures of persons showing Negrid characters, and suggests that 'partly negroized elements' may have been brought to Crete as captives. (517) 
(Before you afrocentrists get your hopes up, know that Baker makes clear: "No one has ever suggested, on evidence either from skulls or pictures, that any non-Europid people participated in the origin or development of Cretan civilization.") 

The presence of Negroid or partially-Negroid types in Greece is confirmed by cranial evidence. J.L. Angel reports: 

In my own skeletal samples from Greece I note apparent negroid nose and mouth traits in two of fourteen Early Neolithic (sixth millenium B.C.), only two or three more among 364 from fifth to second millenium B.C., one among 113 Early Iron Age, one or two among 233 Classic and Hellenistic skeletons, but four clear Negroids (all from one area of Early Christian Corinth) among ninety-five Roman period, two among eighty-five Medieval, and of course ten among fifty-two Turkish period Greeks, yet none among 202 of Romantic (nineteenth century) date. 
Frank Snowden has researched the presence of blacks in the ancient Greece from the standpoint of art and literature. His findings include: 

Both the literary and archaeological evidence points to a not infrequent crossing between blacks and whites. Nothing in the observations on such unions, whether marriage or concubinage, resembles certain modern strictures on racial mixture. 

Of course one reason for the color bar which recently existed in the West was the belief that it was race mixing which led to the collapse of Greek, Roman, and other civilizations. . . . 

No laws in the Greco-Roman world prohibited unions of blacks and whites. Ethiopian blood was interfused with that of Greeks and Romans. No Greek or Roman author condemned such racial mixture. . . . The scientists Aristotle and Pliny, like Plutarch, commented as scientists on the physical appearance of those born of black-white racial mixture but included nothing resembling certain modern strictures on miscegenation. . . . It is safe to assume, therefore, that in course of time many Ethiopians were assimilated into a predominantly white population. (Blacks in Antiquity, 193-195) 

With respect to the number of blacks in ancient Greece, Snowden states: 

Even though we cannot state, in the manner of modern sociologists and historians,the ratio of Blacks to Whites in either Greece or Italy, we can say that Ethiopians were by no means few or rare sights and that their presence, whatever their numbers, constituted no color problem. (Blacks in Antiquity, 186) 
Most slaves in Greece would have been Caucasoid. But, then, slaves made up a very significant percentage of the population, so even if blacks made up a small minority of slaves, the absolute number present in Greece may have been high. A Greek source gives a figure of 400,000 slaves in Attica in 317 BC, compared to 21,000 adult male citizens and 10,000 adult male metics (resident aliens). While modern authors recognize that the 400,000 figure "must be wrong" (Webster 1973, 41), it seems that all Athenians who could afford to owned slaves, and some owned up to 1,000. In the end, Webster estimates that slaves made up roughly a third of the population of Athens (62,000 out of a total population of 186,000 -- personally, I think this may be an underestimate). If one third of the remaining population consisted of metics, that means that less than half the inhabitants of Athens were citizens. 


Mulattoes in ancient Greece
Some Greek Nationalists claim that, while there may have been non-white slaves present in ancient Greece, Greek customs would have prevented any mixing with foreigners. The upper classes did, initially anyway, strongly resist mixing with foreigners. However, the upper classes did not make up anywhere near the bulk of the people living in Greece. There is no reason to expect the slaves and lower or middle classes (who greatly outnumbered the aristocracy) would have abided by the same customs as the upper classes. And, as Peterson notes, "many [members of the merchant and artisan classes] were of foreign extraction", so one hardly expects them to have had qualms about mixing with "foreigners". It should also be noted that: 

The slave had the same legal protection as a metic, and he had his chance of buying freedom . . . Politically, it might be right to think of citizens, metics, and slaves as three different grades. But economically, and therefore to a considerable extent socially, they ran parallel. Metics and slaves were certainly found in quantity in the same income range which covered ninety per cent of the citizens, the unskilled and skilled laborers. (Webster 1973, 47). 

Though after 451 there were laws "restricting citizenship to the children of two citizen parents", Webster thinks it likely that "in fact a number of Athenians did have children by foreigners or freedwomen, and their children were accepted as citizens" (1973, 54). 

There can be no doubt that the slave and metic populations were absorbed into the Greek population as a whole. Regardless of whether or not they mixed with citizens in Classical times (and there seems to be little doubt that they did mix, on at least some occasions, with at least the lower strata of citizenry), they didn't just disappear at the end of the Classical age. They would have continued to increase in number over time, and eventually they must have been incorporated into the people we today call "Greeks". There is no reason the situation with negroid slaves/metics would have been any different. 

According to Frank Snowden: 

Black-white sexual relations were never the cause of great emotional crises and many blacks were physically assimilated into the predominantly white populations of the Mediterranean world. 
Snowden also mentions: 

the number of references to Ethiopians in Greek literature of the fifth century BC, on the appearance of mulatto children following the presence of blacks in Greece in the army of Xerxes, and on the many artistic representations of the mid- and late-fifth century BC reflecting this anthropological evolution. 
Primary sources make it clear that there were, in fact, mixed race offspring born in Greece (and Rome, for that matter). In light of this fact, it seems obvious that there has been introgression of sub-Saharan genes into the Greek gene pool. 

According to Lawrence Tenzer: 

White women married to white men were giving birth to mulatto babies and being charged with adultery. To admit the obvious would be to admit the offense, so other explanations were sought in order to maintain the innocence of the women so charged. Two popular theories evolved - atavism and maternal impression.

The Greek philosopher Aristotle (384-322 B.C.) began the tradition of interracial atavism, explaining that the black [mulatto] son of a white woman was a hereditary throwback to the child's grandfather:

Children can resemble their more remote ancestors....There was at Elis a woman who cohabited with a Negro. Her daughter was not a Negro, but the son that came from that daughter was. 
Aristotle's explanation provided a powerful answer. Greek author Antigonus of Carystus (fl. 250 B.C.) and Greek scholar Aristophanes of Byzantium (257?-?180 B.C.) both incorporated Aristotle's account into their own works. More than three centuries after Aristotle, this explanation was still popular. 

[. . .] 

Aristotle, his followers, Pliny, and Plutarch all promoted atavisim. In ancient times, this theory was one way of explaining how a white woman could have a black (but really mulatto) baby even though she was married to a white man, without being an adulteress. 

Maternal impression was the other technique used to account for how a so-called black baby could be born to two white parents. Pliny explained the general theory as follows: 

A great many likenesses that appear accidental were influenced by sense impressions of sights and sounds received at the time of conception. A trivial thought suddenly crossing the mind of either parent will also produce likeness. 

It was believed that at the moment of conception the mind of the white woman was influenced by a mere thought of a black man, 50 that somehow an impression was left upon her and she produced a "black" child. 


Negroid admixture in Greece
Considering the foregoing, it should come as no surprise that Richards et al. (2000) detected Ethiopian mtDNA haplogroup M1 in Greece. Other sub-Saharan haplogroups are found in Greece's neighbors. Note, Greece remains relatively little studied with respect to population genetics. The few relevant studies that have been done have fairly small sample sizes. It's too early to say much about levels of sub-Saharan mtDNA markers with respect to other countries in Europe. In any event, levels of sub-Saharan mtDNA and Y-chromosome markers aren't all that relevant in the case of Greece, since most admixture in Greece will be ancient. 

In western Europe, most admixture is probably modern, postdating the inception of the Atlantic slave trade. In the case of western Europe, sub-Saharan mtDNA marker levels should pretty accurately reflect levels of sub-Saharan admixture. Not so, in the case of Greece, where genetic drift has had plenty of time to alter marker frequencies. Over time, rarer lineages will tend to die out. Even if Greece once had very substantial (by European standards) levels of sub-Saharan admixture, it is possible that this admixture would no longer show up in mtDNA and Y-chromosome markers. Since mtDNA haplogroup M1 has been detected in Greece, it is certain that Ethiopian genes have indeed been absorbed into the Greek gene pool. But, one might speculate that what sub-Saharan mtDNA markers show up in Greeks today reflect only the latest round of gene flow, dating from the Ottoman empire, perhaps. 

Buxton and Rice (1931) mention that "in Cyprus there is a greater proportion of platyrrhiny among the lower classes than in other social strata, but this is perhaps due to the importation of negro slaves by the Turks." Angel (1945) mentions a "Turkish period skeleton" from Athens, "which is unquestionably the remains of a Negroid individual, though possibly with very slight white admixture." 


Mongoloid admixture in Greece
In addition to Negroid admixture, there is clear genetic evidence for Mongoloid admixture in Greece. 
Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism in northern Greece.
Astrinidis A, Kouvatsi A. 

Department of Genetics, Development, and Molecular Biology, School of Biology, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, Greece. 

The polymorphism of human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) was studied in 118 unrelated Greeks (from northern Greece) using total blood cell DNA and the restriction enzymes HpaI, BamHI, HaeII, MspI, AvaII, and HincII. One new morph was identified for MspI (named MspI morph 18Gr) and is the result of a mutation in a previously thought monomorphic site at 104 bp. HpaI morph 1 [a Mongoloid marker] was detected for the first time in a European sample. Also, AvaII morph 13 was observed in Greece in a frequency higher (5.93%) than that found in any other population. Eighteen mtDNA types were identified, three of which are new [86-2 (1-3-1-4-9-2), 87-2 (2-3-1-1-13-2), and 88-2 (2-1-1-18Gr-1-2)] and can be derived from already known mtDNA types by single restriction site changes. Type 57-2 (2-3-1-4-13-2), which had been previously characterized as "Italian," was found with higher frequency (4.24%) in northern Greece. The calculation of genetic distances and chi-square values through Monte Carlo simulation shows that the Greek sample does not differ from the Italian sample. 

PMID: 7916320 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 

3% of Greek Y-chromosomes belong to the ostensibly Mongoloid HG26. This Mongoloid ancestry could conceivably reflect a Turkic influence in Greece. 

My experience tells me that mtDNA and Y-chromosome markers are very poor indicators for estimating levels of Mongoloid admixture in various European populations. Regardless of what these markers say, it should be obvious from history and geography that Greeks have more Mongoloid ancestry than, e.g., Germans; just as Hungarians no doubt have more Mongoloid admixture than western Europeans, so to do Greeks. And Greeks certainly have vastly more Mongoloid admixture than the British. See below for examples of Greek celebrities with obvious Mongoloid admixture. 


Photographs of Greeks
RM's photos of "Greeks"
Some of the "Greek" celebrities RM has posted are probably not fully Greek by ancestry. For example, Bob Costas' full name is "Robert Quinlan Costas". Unless someone can think of a better reason why a "Greek" would have an Irish surname for a middle name, I'll take this piece of evidence to mean Costas is probably half-Irish. It is hard to confirm whether or not the other Greek-Americans RM has posted are of full Greek ancestry. For example, I've heard that Alexi Lalas is only half-Greek. 


Typical Greeks:



Corina Stergiaou (left), "a very typical Greek woman", says Dienekes; Pete Sampras (right), "looks entirely Greek", according to Pontian Greek and amateur anthropologist Dienekes Pontikos.

Greek students:




Ethnic Greeks enrolled at UK and US universities.


Some Greek celebrities with visible Mongoloid ancestry:


L-R: Ioanna Soulioti; Marios Fragkoulis; Yanna Lyberi 


More Greeks with apparent non-European ancestry:


L-R: Vana Barba (Negroid strain?); K. Dmitris Tsatsos (Hither Asiatic); Unknown (Orientalid strain?) 

In the interest of bandwidth, I'll leave it at that. Though, if I wished to, I could list a dozen genuinely non-European-looking Greeks for every "Hamito-Semitic" Briton RM has posted. 


Addendum
In response to this page, RM has renamed his "Myth #7" to something that makes a bit more sense (though he is still, of course, wrong in implying that the Greeks haven't changed since antiquity). RM has also removed the photo of Bob Costas. 

RM has been forced to retract his wishful, unresearched claim that "no evidence [exists] that blacks were at all present in Ancient Greece". 


Summary and Conclusions

The Greeks have changed since antiquity; changes include the blending of what, in classical times, had been genetic isolates and the disappearance of the elites responsible for much of ancient Greek achievement. Gene flow into Greece has also occured, the exact levels and effects of which are not known. 

Primary sources, art, and anthropological evidence support the presence of blacks and the birth of mulattoes in ancient Greece. 

The Greeks have Negroid admixture, the exact extent of which is indeterminable with current data. Though, to be fair, they probably have less Negroid admixture than the Portuguese. 

The Greeks have Mongoloid admixture. 

More research is needed before we can make definitive pronouncements on, e.g.: 

the precise levels of Negroid and Mongoloid ancestry in Greece. 

exactly how recent the ~20% "recent" Near Eastern gene flow to Greece is. This gene flow is from later than the Neolithic, but how much is from historical times and later? And to what degree has this admixture altered the Greek population? 

how much Slavs and Albanians contributed to the Greek gene pool, and what sort of genetic impact the impact the Turks had on Greece. 

Sources
Angel, J. Lawrence. Skeletal Material from Attica. Hesperia. Volume 14, Issue 4. The American Excavations in the Athenian Agora: Twenty-Seventh Report. Oct-Dec 1945. 279-363. 

Baker, John R. Race. Oxford, London, 1974. 

Buxton, L.H. Dudley and D. Talbot Rice. Report on the Human Remains found at Kish. Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland. Volume 61. Jan-Jun 1931. 57-119. 

Clark, Edwin. The Roots of the White Man (Part I): A Reply to Jared Taylor. American Renaissance. Vol 7, No. 11. November, 1996. 

Coon, Carleton S. The Greeks in The Races of Europe. Macmillan, New York, 1939. 

Day, John V. In Quest of Our Linguistic Ancestors: The Elusive Origins of the Indo-Europeans. The Occidental Quarterly, Volume 2, Number 3. Fall 2002. 

Hall, Jonathan M. Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity. Cambridge, New York, Cambridge University Press, 1997. 

Lundman, Bertil. The racial history of Europe: an outline in The Races and Peoples of Europe. 

Murphy, John. Racial Crossing and Cultural Efflorescence. Man. Volume 41. Jan-Feb 1941. 

Pearson, Roger. Some comments on Lynn's thesis by an anthropologist. Mankind Quarterly. Fall/Winter 1991. Vol. 32. Issue 1/2. p175. 

Peterson, R. The Greek Face. The Journal of Indo-European Studies. Volume 2, Number 4. Winter, 1974. 385-406. 

Richards et al. Tracing European founder lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA pool. Am J Hum Genet 2000 Nov;67(5):1251-76. Supplementary data. 

Richards et al. In Search of Geographical Patterns in European Mitochondrial DNA. Am J Hum Genet 2002 Nov;71(5):1168-74. 

Snowden, Frank M., Jr. Blacks in Antiquity: Ethiopians in the Greco-Roman experience. Cambridge. The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press. 1970. 

Tenzer, Lawrence R. How Do We Inherit Our Skin Color? from A Completely New Look At Interracial Sexuality. 

Theroux, Paul. The Pillars of Hercules: A Grand Tour of The Mediterranean. G.P. 1995. 

Webster, T.B.L. Athenian Culture and Society. Batsford, London, 1973. 


Additional reading
The Negro presence in classical Greece -- an overview and References to race in Homer's epics 

Photos of ancient Greek statuary (scroll down to "griechisch") 

Nordic Hellas by Karl Earlson 

The Problem of Excess Genius

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## Wordless

Kete artikull e kam te regjitstruar ne faqe HTML, fotot mungojne sepse nuk kam
kohe ti ngarkoj nje nga nje. 

Megjithate mjafton te kuptosh vjedhjen me te madhje te historise nga turmat
negro-afrikane. Me vjen keq per ata Shqiptare qe halli i dteyron te shesin 
krenarine e tyre per 5 dhrahmi te qelbura! Me keq akoma, per te treguar
zellin e tyre ndaj "padroneve" negroide, jane gati te mbjellin perçarjen dhe
urrejtjen ndaj vellezeve te tyre te nje gjaku! Megjithate shpresoj, qe nje 
dite urrejtja qe sot u ka zene syte t'ia lere vendin rilindjes, rindergjegjesimit
se sa me fat jane, qe kane lindur Shqiptar!

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## rachi

ej, po fak flamurin e greqise, aso goca me e mira e shkolles eshte, dhe e ka nderu veten. Po se ngriti flamurin e llakave vetem tregon se ca farse e ca racistash jevgjit e greqise jane, asgje me shume.

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## Taulant _NYC

Une ne Astoria jetoj po ketu bucet kenga e Ali Pashes lol . Seriozisht ne nuk kemi pse i bejme buje te madhe ketij fakti , madje une mendoj se greket kane te drejte . Une nuk do te ndjehesha mire sikur ne nje parakalim per festen e Pavaresise flamurin tone ta parakalonte nje grek .

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## Tiras

> Une ne Astoria jetoj po ketu bucet kenga e Ali Pashes lol . Seriozisht ne nuk kemi pse i bejme buje te madhe ketij fakti , madje une mendoj se greket kane te drejte . Une nuk do te ndjehesha mire sikur ne nje parakalim per festen e Pavaresise flamurin tone ta parakalonte nje grek .


Pse jo? Ja nje kandidat i pershtatshem  per internacionalizem:

"Hey xenilatis why are you wasting your fingertips typing all those comments. With the exception of europe no one even heard of Abanians, don't get so exited about it these people, they are insignificant they have no power they will never have power they are like some lost tribe deep in the amazon."\

They have been used by others all through history they pose absolutly no harm.They are like a little chiauwawa loud and harmless.Just throw them a bone every now and then and they will be happy."

http://p221.ezboard.com/fbalkanhisto...opicID=1.topic

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## zeus

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Nxënësja shqiptare, Sonila Metushi, e cilësuar si nxënësja më e mirë e një shkolle Akaia në Greqi, refuzon të mbajë flamurin e këtij shteti në ditën kombëtare. Kjo ka qenë përgjigja e shqiptares, pas protestave të nxënësve të gjimnazit në Akaia të Peloponezit. Të njëjtën gjë ka bërë edhe një vit më parë një tjetër shqiptar, Odise Cenaj, i cili refuzoi të parakalonte me flamurin helen. Nxënësit kanë deklaruar se nuk do të lejojnë që një shqiptare të mbajë flamurin grek, pasi të afërmit e tyre kanë derdhur gjak në luftë me ta. Ata kanë pohuar se do të vazhdojnë të bojkotojnë mësimin në rast se nuk do të merret një vendim i ri për të rrëzuar atë të publikuar tashmë. 

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## Kryeplaku

Turp nga Zoti neve i kerkojme flamurin te tjereve dhe ata na i refuzojne!

Do isha me te vertet krenar te shihja te huajt te ngrijne flamurin e Shqiperise, se ma pak fjale ata i njohin rendesine ketij flamuri dhe marin persiper ta ngrine ate ne qiell. Po a jam krenar kur shohe Shqiptaret te qaravietn pse nuk munden te ngrijne flamuret e te tjereve? Jo aspak. Le ta parashtroje temen ndryshe: gjyshja ime mbeti jetime ne moshen 12 vjecare kur Gjermanet i dogjen shtepine dhe i vrane te atin pse e akuzonin se ushqente Partizane. A duhet te jet gjyshja ime krenare kur shef te birin e vet te ngrij flamurin gjerman? Une besoj se jo, sepse ne emer te ketij flamuri i vrane te atin. Nuk them se duhet te jemi armiq me Gjermanet, Italianet, Serbet, Greket e sa shtete te tjera i kan shkaktuar me perpara deme atdheut tone por do ishte me te vertet poshteruese per herojte e ketij populli te shofin sesi Shqiptaret shkojne e ngrijne flamuret ne emerin e te cileve kaq vjet jemi dermuar, vrare e pushtuar. Pra duket qarte se femijet tone nuk i mesojme aspak sic duhet por i japim protipe te gabuara, i mesojme ti "bijne gjoksit me grushte" por pa e ditur se per cfare. Kjo eshte gjendja e Shqiptareve qe po behen rezil ne te gjithe boten. Fund, nuk kam asnje fare problemi te ngrijne Shqiptaret flamuret e shteteve shumeetnike ku njihen traditat kombetere te cdo qytetari si SHBA, Kanada, Australi etj.

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## gabriel

Une mendoj qe ajo shqiptare me rrezultatet qe ka arritur meriton plotesisht te mbaje flamurin shqiptar.
Mentaliteti fshataresko-primitiv i grekerve me shume i ben nder se sa i ul vlerat shqiptareve.
 Kjo zhurme nxjerr ne pah aftesite e shqiptareve si dhe injorancen e popullit grek ne marredhenie me shqiptaret.

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