# Çështja kombëtare > Historia shqiptare >  Genjeshtra me e madhe ne historine Shqipe

## gladiator

Versioni tanishem i origjines Shqiptare eshte teoria Ilire. Por a eshte kjo e vertete? Une mendoj se faktet historike thon ndryshe. Ne fillim kush jane Shqiptaret. Ose me mire cfare eshte Shqiperia. Gjeografikisht dihet se ajo shtrihet buze Adriatikut, ne kufij me Malin e Zi, Kosoven, Maqedonin dhe Greqin. Tani cili nga keta territore banohej nga Iliret. Gjeografet e lashte na thon se shume pak, ngaqe sipas tyre Iliria fillonte te Drini dhe zgjatej deri ne Dalmatia. Atehere si ka mundesi qe Shqiptaret derivojne nga Iliret! Pergjigja eshte e thjeshte - historianeve Evropian dhe atyre Enveriste nuk u pelqente e verteta rreth origjines Shqiptare, e keshtu qe atyre ju desh te fabrikonin dicka. 
Atehere kush ishin paraardhesit e Shqiptareve, nqs jo Iliret. Lets see.
Emri Shqiperis doli ne 14 c AD si nje substitucion per Arbanin, ose Albanin, fisi kryesor Mesjetar Shqiptar, i cili okuponte luginen e Matit, me kryeqender Krujen. Tani Arbani ne periudhat klasike quhet Arbi nga Hekateus dhe Albani nga Ptolemi, dhe te dy keta gjeograf pohojne se ai ishte fis Maqedonas, i lidhur ngushte me Enkelein, ne luginen e Drinit te Zi, i cili quhet edhe Desareti nga Strabo. 
Plini gjithashtu e ben te qarte se Maqedonia okuponte shumicen e Shqiperis sot, kur ai shkruan: 'A Lisso (Lezhe) Macedonia provincia; gentes Partheni at a tergo eorum eum Dassaretae'. (Ne Lezhe fillon Maqedonia; rracat e saj jane Partheni dhe pas tyre Dasareti). Ketyre fiseve Strabo u shton edhe Pirustain, ose Penestain, ne luginen e lartme te Vardarit (perreth Tetoves), i cili sipas tij udhehiqej nga e njejta familje mbreterore si e Enkeleit, Parthinit dhe Arbit. Ky fis mbreteror nuk ishte tjeter vecse paraardhesi i familjes se Kastrioteve, dhe te heqim ndonje fie dyshimi, biem dy fakte. I pari eshte territori dominios se Kastrioteve, duke korresponduar saktesisht me familjen mbreterore Maqedone. Fakti dyte eshte emblema e Kastrioteve- helmet me dy briret e dhise ne maje, e cila eshte nje version i mevonshem i asaj te familjes Maqedone te lashte, e cila mund te duket ne shume monedha te mbreterve Maqedone, vecanerisht ne ato leshuar nga Aleksandri I. 
Por kjo nuk do te thote se Shqiptaret e kane prejardhjen vetem nga Maqedonet, sepse edhe Iliret, Dardanet dhe Epirotet Shqiptare ishin, por qe ne lashtesi Shqiptaret antik perfaqesoheshin nga Maqedonet, sikurse Arberi ne Mesjete qe perfaqesonte shtetin Shqiptar.
Keta ishin Maqedonet qe ne 335 PK me ne krye mbretin e tyre Aleksandri III u leshuan si nje meteor drejt Azis dhe brenda 12 vjeteve pushtuan shumicen e botes se njohur.
Por ky version historie nuk e pelqente Evropianeve, sepse per ta ishte e pamundur qe nje vend i varfer si Shqiperia kur Gjermanet, Francezet dhe Anglezet jetonin neper shpella ishte duke ndertuar perandori boterore. 
Kurse Enverit kjo nuk i pelqente ngaqe policia e tij ishte kundra bashkimit te  provincave Shiptare ne Maqedoni me Shqiperin proper.
Keshtu doli versioni historise qe Shqiptaret njohin sot.

Dhe morali ketij artikulli eshte se Shqiptaret e bashkuar 2,000 vjet me pare pushtuan boten, kush e di se cfare ata mund te arrijne sot.

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## Edvin83

Ti je i vetmi ne bote qe na e hedh kete teori te bazuar thjesht ne disa mendime te tuat te pabazuara ne fakte. Iliria shtrihej qe nga Sllovenia e sotme e deti ne Korint e jo sic thua ti deri ne Dalmaci, per kete ke dokumeta plot nga historiane te kohes, greke e romake.Pastaj ke dokumenta ushtarake te shtetit romak te asaj kohe qe vertetojne kete. Shqiptaret ishin ajo qe mbeti nga Ilira jugore dhe Dardania, pjesa tjeter u asimilua ne detin e madh sllav qe i pershiu iliret e veriut. Kufiri verior i ilireve ka qene lumi Sava e Drava dhe Danubi, iliret e veriut kufizoheshin me fise kelte, kurse ne verilindje kufizoheshin me trake e dake, kete e deshmojne dhe mbetjet gjuhesore ne fiset Rumune deri ne ditet e sotme.
Me Maqedonet Dardanet dhe Enkelejte kane qene gjithmone ne lufte dhe here pas here ndermerrnin inkursione ne territor Maqedon, megjithese ka pasur dhe martesa sic ishte rasti i nenes se Aleksandrit te madh qe ishte nga Dibra.
DArdanet shfrytezonin romaket per te dominuar mbi maqedonet dhe shpesh merrnin pjese ne lluften e romakeve kunder maqedonasve.
Per fakte e burime lexo librin Iliret te Aleksander Stipceviq, dhe librin The Illyrians te John Wilkes, plus dhjetera librave te tjere te arkeologeve e historianeve qe kane bere kerkime rretht kesaj teme.

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## gladiator

Eshte e kunderta my friend
Une jam bazuar ne fakte historike, kurse ti te mendimet e tua.
Ti nuk permend asnje historian, ose gjeograf. 
Kurse une kam cituar jo me kot Plinin, Strabo, dhe po shtoj tani edhe Ptolemin, i cili e staton fare qarte se Albani (Shqiptaret) ishin fis MAQEDONAS.
Megjithate po te nxjerr jashte loje keshtu shpejt. 
Kush ishin mbretet e Ilireve. Dihet famijla e Pleuratit, Genti, Skerdi dhe Teuta. 
Tani cilet ishin territoret e tyre. Ik lexoje pak ate John Wilkesin tend se ta thot ai. 
Po sdi Anglisht ta 'thom une' Keta mbreter udhehiqnin Pleurin, Daorsin, Ardiaei, dhe ILIRI proper - ky perfshinte edhe Labeatin ne Shkoder. Dhe kufiri tyre me verior ishte Neretva, ku fillonte Dalmatia. Mbi Dalmatian vinte Liburnia: pastaj Pajonia. Ne lindje te ketyre, pergjate Danubit dhe Saves, ishin Skordiski, Breuki - lideret e te cileve Batot luftuan Romaket; Autariati dhe Mysi- dhe jo Iliret sic thua ti.
Ne jug fakti me i mire se Iliria mbaronte te Drini bashkuar eshte traktati midis Teutes dhe Romakeve, e ke edhe te Wilkes. Nje nga termat kryesor te traktit ishte qe ANIJET ILIRE NUK DUHEJ TE LUNDRONIN MATAN LEZHES NE GRUPE.
Pse jo, nqs ky ishte territor Ilire. 
Po ngaqe ne Lezhe fillonte Maqedonia. 
Do me fakte.
Ne sa pjese ndahej Shqiperia ne periudhat Romake.
Epiri Vetus, Maqedonia, Epirus Novas dhe Dardania. 
KU VAJTEN ILIRET ?
No body knows.
Megjithate ti dukesh ke fantasy te gjere dhe mund ta zbulosh.

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## Edvin83

Me fal me duket se paskam lexuar Wilkes tjeter dhe sigurisht Stipceviq qenka krejt gabim dhe qenka shume i trashe...
Me fal se edhe nuk di anglisht megjtihese kam nje B.S. American Degree.....
Sigurisht edhe dhejtera shkencetare e dijetare tjere qe ka lexuar dhe u jam referuar jane gabim dhe jane krejt STUPID.
Cfare te bej se kam fantazi te zgjeruar dhe gjenet e mia cuditerisht jane kaq te ngjashme me maqedonasit megjithese analizat tregojne ndryshe por ndoshta I am that stupid i cannot know...
Ca te bej, kur jemi kaq te trashe e ka persona kaq te trashe ne kombin e globin tone tokesor dhe shyqyr jane ca persona te vecante si puna juaj qe jane kaq inteligjente

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## tonimontana83

Pershendetje. Me vjen mire te shoh nje teme te tille ketu ,dhe prandaj po mar pjese ne diskutim.
 Megjithate ,eshte per tu vene re se sa pak interes ka ngjallur kjo tem per pjesmarresit e tjere te forumit. Dhe kjo eshte per tu ardhur keq. Historia e popullit tone eshte shume konfuze per sa i perket parardhesve tane, te pakten ajo histori qe mesojme ne shkolla.
Jam dakorte me   gladiator  per sa i perket  , interesit te evropiameve dhe fqinjeve tana te mbulojne historine e shqipetareve me genjeshtra.
Por une nuk do flisja per Maqedonas ,ilire ,epiriot  etj...... Por per fise te ndryshme me prejardhe  te njejte ajo    PELLAZGE.   Nuk dua te bie ne kurthin e fakteve apo te permend libra te dryshem te autoreve te huaj , nga angles,frances,gjerman dhe american.  Dua te them se kush do te dije te verteten duhet  te lexoj shume libra ,per fat te keq  me autore te huaj,sepse historianet shqipetare  nuk po punonj si dutet ,dhe teni pas diktatures te tmershme qe nuk i linte.
Them shume libra sepse nuk ka nje liber te mirfillte nga fillimi deri ne fund,te pakten ato qe kam pare une.   Te gjithe kishin gjera qe ja vlenin ti lexoje ,por kishin gjera qe nuk rrinin ne kembe.
   Duke thene me prejardhe Pellazge , e di qe jam shume ne siperfaqesor, por mendoj se duhet filluar nga ketu,  Nga fakti qe pellazget jane populli me i lashte i evropes, me gjuhen me te lashte te evropes, ku kane prejardhje te gjith "racat" e bardha te evropes.   Populli shqipetar munde   te gjuhet pasardhesi me i paster i pellazgeve, pikerisht per mosperzirjen me popujt e tjere . Gjuha shqipe eshte e vetmja ne bote qe munde te pasqyroje ate te pellazgeve, saqe greqishtja e lashte eshte 70 % shqipja e sotme, nje nga motivet pse greket e ndryshuan ne ate te sotmen.
Omeri ,veprat  e tij i  ka shkruar ne greqishten e lashte ,e cila ishte nje dialekt e gjuhes se pellazgeve (shqipja). Ka shume gjuhetare qe e kane studiuar dhe kane gjetur shume ngjashmeri me gjuhen shqipe,dhe duke e vertetuar qe nuk eshte shqipja ajo qe ka kopjuar greqishten e lashte .
ETRUSKET (tosk, toskanet ,toskterishtja)  kane prejardhje nga Epiri (pellasge) dhe gjuha e tyre gjithashtu , ku dhe latinishtja nje dialekte i greqishtes se lashte. Ja dhe perse  toskterishtja  ,(dialekti i jugut ) ngjan me latinishten ne vende qe ti ngjaje greqerishtes(moderne) qe e ka aty afer.
Po dal shume nga tema e di ,por jane gjera shume te aferta me njera tjetren.
Prandaj jam i mendimit se nuk duhet diskutuar se shqipetaret jane ilire apo maqedonas ,spse gjith keto fise ,bashke me epiriote,dardanet ,albanet ,enkelejte e te tjere jane te gjithe me prejardheje pellazge , keshtu qe Shqipetaret kane prejardhje pellazge, gjaku dhe gjuhe me shume nga gjith te tjeret.             
Kjo eshte ideja qe kam une ,besoj dhe shume te tjere , te pakten ato dhjetra libra me autore ,historiane,arkeolog ,skencare te huaj . Po e perseris dhe nje here qe eshte per te ardhur keq qe nuk ka historiane te mirfillte shqipetare, keshtu nuk do te ishte nevoja te dish gjuhe te huaja per te mesuar qe gjuha jote eshte me e lashta ne kontinentin e vjeter te Evropes.....

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## D@mian

> Kurse une kam cituar jo me kot Plinin, Strabo, dhe po shtoj tani edhe Ptolemin, i cili e staton fare qarte se Albani (Shqiptaret) ishin fis MAQEDONAS.



Me duket se gabohesh. Albanet vertet referohen ne Gjeografine e Ptolemeut ne pjesen qe flet per Temen (Provincen) e Maqedonise, sipas ndarjes administrative te Perandorise Romake, por provinca ne fjale perfshinte edhe Ilirine e Jugut (nga Lezha e poshte). Shikoje kete harte te periudhes se Rilindjes, bazuar ne burime Romake:


Sic e sheh, pjesa perendimore e Provinces se Maqedonise, ku gjendet edhe fisi Albani, banohet nga "Illyricae Gentes" (dmth popuj ilire). 



Edhe njehere e perseris, ndarja ne provinca ka te beje me organizimin administrativ te Perandorise, jo perberjen etnike te vete provincave. Mendoj se kjo e zgjidh keqkuptimin  :buzeqeshje:

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## D@mian

> Omeri ,veprat  e tij i  ka shkruar ne greqishten e lashte ...


Cili Omer? Vrioni? :ngerdheshje:

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## gladiator

Se kuptoj nga doli ky fis i quajtur Iliria e Jugut, kur as edhe nje nga historianet e lashte - Herodoti, Thycudites, Hekateus, Polybius dhe Livvy, e shume te tjere, asnjehere nuk permendin nje popull te tille ne historite e tyre. 
Edhe njehere teorit qe fiset Maqedone - Arbi, Partheni, Enkelei, Desareti, Lynkesti dhe dhe Pirustai, ishin Ilire dolen me vone nga historianet e mevonshem ne menyre qe Maqedonet ata ti benin Greke. Por ajo Maqedonia Greke, qe quhej edhe Emathia, u pushtua nga Enkelei dhe Pirustai, dhe si rrjedhoje tere dominios se tyre ju dha ai emer.
U mundova te email harten e Ptolemit, por nuk munda. Me vin keq. 
Megjithate i lini cfare thone Rilindasit, apo Stipcevici, dhe Wilkes. por po done te zbuloni te verteten studioni dokumentat e lashte, sepse atehere Maqedonet akoma nuk e kishin pushtuar boten, dhe keshtu nuk i interesonte njeriu te fallsifikonte historine. Ne fakt, te gjitha librat kushtuar Maqedoneve dhe Aleksandrit, si Kleisthenes, Ptolemi - mbreti Egjyptit, Aristobolus dhe Kleitarku, jane zhdukur te gjithe pa lene gjurme. Perse? Sepse ata thonin te verteten. 
Keshtu qe ju do gjeni vetem fragmente. 

Do tjua dija per nder nqs nuk postoni me mesazhe ne kete teme, por vetem e lexoni, dhe po te doni e besoni. Une e hapa kete teme duke qene shume i sigurte ne vetvete pas kater vjetesh rikerkimesh ne arkiva librarish boterore.

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## D@mian

> Se kuptoj nga doli ky fis i quajtur Iliria e Jugut, kur as edhe nje nga historianet e lashte - Herodoti, Thycudites, Hekateus, Polybius dhe Livvy, e shume te tjere, asnjehere nuk permendin nje popull te tille ne historite e tyre.


Nuk foli njeri per ndonje fis te quajtur Iliria e Jugut. Ate qe thashe eshte se Provinca administrative Romake e Maqedonise (e shfaqur ne harten e Ptolemeut) perfshinte rajonin jugor te Ilirise (shiko harten qe postova). 




> Edhe njehere teorit qe fiset Maqedone - Arbi, Partheni, Enkelei, Desareti, Lynkesti dhe dhe Pirustai, ishin Ilire dolen me vone nga historianet e mevonshem ne menyre qe Maqedonet ata ti benin Greke.


Fiset qe ti permend jane permendur jane te permendur si Ilire ne tekstet e lashtesise (mgjs nuk jam i sigurt per Lyncesti).




> U mundova te email harten e Ptolemit, por nuk munda. Me vin keq.


Eshte harta qe kam postuar.




> Megjithate i lini cfare thone Rilindasit, apo Stipcevici, dhe Wilkes.


Nuk e kuptoj c'hyjne Rilindasit ketu! Stipcevic dhe Wilkes jane historiane te afirmuar dhe me kredenciale akademike, si te leme cfare thone ata per keto tema, ke te degjojme atehere?




> por po done te zbuloni te verteten studioni dokumentat e lashte, ...


Cilat dokumente? Ku ndodhen keto? Na jep dicka konkrete (p.sh., datim, autor, perkthim, muze, arkive etj)




> Ne fakt, te gjitha librat kushtuar Maqedoneve dhe Aleksandrit, si Kleisthenes, Ptolemi - mbreti Egjyptit, Aristobolus dhe Kleitarku, jane zhdukur te gjithe pa lene gjurme. Perse? Sepse ata thonin te verteten. 
> Keshtu qe ju do gjeni vetem fragmente.


Ti ku e di se cfare shkruanin ato, derisa jane te zhdukura? Cilat fragmente?




> Do tjua dija per nder nqs nuk postoni me mesazhe ne kete teme, ...


Atehere perse e hape?

Pershendetje

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## Hyllien

> Ti je i vetmi ne bote qe na e hedh kete teori te bazuar thjesht ne disa mendime te tuat te pabazuara ne fakte. Iliria shtrihej qe nga Sllovenia e sotme e deti ne Korint e jo sic thua ti deri ne Dalmaci, per kete ke dokumeta plot nga historiane te kohes, greke e romake.Pastaj ke dokumenta ushtarake te shtetit romak te asaj kohe qe vertetojne kete. Shqiptaret ishin ajo qe mbeti nga Ilira jugore dhe Dardania, pjesa tjeter u asimilua ne detin e madh sllav qe i pershiu iliret e veriut. Kufiri verior i ilireve ka qene lumi Sava e Drava dhe Danubi, iliret e veriut kufizoheshin me fise kelte, kurse ne verilindje kufizoheshin me trake e dake, kete e deshmojne dhe mbetjet gjuhesore ne fiset Rumune deri ne ditet e sotme.
> Me Maqedonet Dardanet dhe Enkelejte kane qene gjithmone ne lufte dhe here pas here ndermerrnin inkursione ne territor Maqedon, megjithese ka pasur dhe martesa sic ishte rasti i nenes se Aleksandrit te madh qe ishte nga Dibra.
> DArdanet shfrytezonin romaket per te dominuar mbi maqedonet dhe shpesh merrnin pjese ne lluften e romakeve kunder maqedonasve.
> Per fakte e burime lexo librin Iliret te Aleksander Stipceviq, dhe librin The Illyrians te John Wilkes, plus dhjetera librave te tjere te arkeologeve e historianeve qe kane bere kerkime rretht kesaj teme.


Edhe "Greket" me njeri tjetrin ne lufte ishin, sidomos ata qe ja kishin kunjen Spartes. Po si perfundim te "gjithe" "greke" u quajten. Si e shpjegon zoteria juaj kete gje ?

Cfare gjuhe flitnin Dardanet, Maqedonet dhe Iliret ? Si merreshe vesh Aleksandri me ushtaret e tij ?

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## Hyllien

> Me fal me duket se paskam lexuar Wilkes tjeter dhe sigurisht Stipceviq qenka krejt gabim dhe qenka shume i trashe...
> Me fal se edhe nuk di anglisht megjtihese kam nje B.S. American Degree.....
> Sigurisht edhe dhejtera shkencetare e dijetare tjere qe ka lexuar dhe u jam referuar jane gabim dhe jane krejt STUPID.
> Cfare te bej se kam fantazi te zgjeruar dhe gjenet e mia cuditerisht jane kaq te ngjashme me maqedonasit megjithese analizat tregojne ndryshe por ndoshta I am that stupid i cannot know...
> Ca te bej, kur jemi kaq te trashe e ka persona kaq te trashe ne kombin e globin tone tokesor dhe shyqyr jane ca persona te vecante si puna juaj qe jane kaq inteligjente


Wilkes, ky po ky. Ka ca teori shume interesante qe percaresit e tipit Ardian Klosi me disa te tjere atje nga ne mund ti inkorporojne ne teorite e tyre internacionaliste te targuara gjermani apo kujtdo shteti qe i pergjigjen. Megjithate puna e ketit Wilkes, nese mund te quhet e tille mjafton puna pararendese e Jakov Milajt. Me nje perkthim ne Anglisht, meqe paske dhe American BS Degree rregullohet ajo pune. Por kjo behet nese ke vullnet te mire per gjerat dhe nese idealin qe nderon e ka emrin Shqiperi jo ................

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## gladiator

U thashe mos dergoni me mesazhe sepse ka tipa qe edhe sikur Aleksandri Madh te ngrihet nga varri e tu thote se ej une jam Shqiptar, dhe mbreteria ime shtrihej nga Egjeu deri ne Adriatik, ata lloj tipash do mundohen te kundershtojne, pavaresisht se nuk e kane idene fare per se ata flasin. 
Ajo harta jote, grupi, nuk e di nga ka ardhur, por e Ptolemit ajo nuk eshte, sepse ate te Ptolemit une e kam para syve dhe eshte krejt ndryshe. Ose mbase eshte e ndonje Ptolemi Shqiptar. Shiko cfare viti eshte prodhuar, kjo e imja i perket shekullit te II AD. Dhe ajo harta jote e ncjerr Maqedonin deri te Deti Zi, duke i bere edhe Thraket Maqedone, qe eshte qesharake. 
Ata librat e zhdukur dihet se cfare permbanin sepse ka libra te tjeter qe jane bazuar tek ata,  dhe na thone se cila ishte permbajtja e burimeve te tyre. 
Por nqs ju se keni mendjen per te lexuar dhe kerkuar, por per tu gricur me njeri tjetrin seshte faji im. 
Megjithate, ai qe mbahet si me i dituri nga juve le ti pergjigjet pak pyetjes se kush ishin mbreterit e Albanit, Parthinit, Enkeleit dhe Penestait?????????
Ai qe e verteton se mbretet e tyre ishin Ilire ka zgjidhur gjithe problemin. 

Une tani po citoj nje fragment nga Thukydides, i cili e njihte mire Maqedonin.
vetem mos thoni nuk eshte e vertete sepse Thukydides jetoi ne shekullin e V PK, dhe ishte gjalle ne kohen kur Maqedonet u duken ne histori per here te pare.

Ushtria e Sitalkes (mbreti Thrak) zebriti ne Maqedonin e Poshtme, e cila udhehiqej nga Perdika (mbreti Maqedon). Ngaqe rraca Maqedone perfshin edhe LYNKESTET dhe ELIMIOTET, dhe fiset e tjera nga Vendi Siperm. (Lynkestet banonin ne Crna Reka, me qender Bitolen; kurse Elimioti okuponte luginen e Devollit dhe Osumit me qender Elimaj - Irmaj ne Gramsh). Kurse Maqedonia afer Detit, pra Maqedonia Greke, u pushtua per here te pare nga ata Maqedonet e Siperm. 

Thykudides mbase nuk i percakton ata FISET E TJERE NGA VENDI SIPERM, por derisa Maqedonia Greke ishte e pushtuar prej tyre, ata fiset ndodheshin patjeter ne veri te Lynkestit dhe Elimiotit, pra territori Enkeleit, Penestait, Parthini dhe Brygi. 

Ai qe eshte interesuar per harten e vertete te Ptolemit te me dergoi emailin dhe ja nis une.

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## ash

ne  ndihme  te  debatit  interesant  po  sjell  ca  te  dhena :


LIST OF ILLYRIAN TRIBES



Ardiaei

Abri

Agrianes

Amantini

Andizetes

Arrianes

Atintani (Atintanes)

Autariates (Autariate)

Azali

Boii

Breuci

Bylliones

Carni

Catari

Celegeri

Chelidones

Colapiani (Colapani)

Cornacates

Daesitiates

Daorsi

Dardani

Dassarstae (Dassarenses,Dassaretae)

Daversi

Delmatae (Delmetae)

Deraemestae

Deuri

Dindari

Ditiones

Docleatae

Encheleae (Enchelleae)

Eravisci

Glintidiones

Grabaei

Histri

Iapode (Japodes)

Iasi (Jasi)

Labeatae (Labeates)

Latobici

Liburni

Maedi

Maezaei

Melcumani

Moesi

*Molossi (Molossii)* (nga  te  cilet  rrjedh  edhe  nena  e  Aleksandrit  te  Madh)
Naransii

Oseriates (Osseriates)

Paeones

Parthini

Perestae (Penestae)

Pirustae (Pipustae)

Plearaei

Sardeaties

Scirtari

Scordisci

Seleiitani

Siculotae

Soirtones

Taulanti (Tallanii)

Triballi

Vardaei

Veneti

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## ash

*Hellenic Illyrian Tribes* 

Greek civilization grew out of a welter of various Hellenic Illyrian tribal nations which had occupied the region from time immemorial or had entered from elsewhere at an early date. Not much is known of this complex group of interrelated peoples.


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ÆTHIKES They lived in northern and northwestern Thessaly, on Pindos and Karvounia mountains, near the Peneios river. They were neighbours of the Athamanes and the Tymphaioi and were first mentioned by Homer. They were regarded by other Hellenic peoples as barbarians and thieves. Their towns were Metsovo and Malakasio (nowadays within the administrative division of Ioannina). They disappeared after the Roman annexation of Greece in the 2nd century BCE. 

AGRÆOI They lived in the Agrapha Mountains, between the rivers Achelous and Agraphiotes. They called their land Agraea or Agrais. Important cities were Agrinio (capital city of the administrative division of Aetoloakarnania) and Ephyra. 
They created their own kingdom. 

Salynthios........................................  .fl. c. 430 BCE 
To the Ætolian League... 
AKARNANES They lived in Akarnania, having arrived there from Argos. Their cities were Amphilochia, Amphilochikon Argos, Limnaea, Stratos, Oiniades, Anaktorio, Echinos, Aktio, Solion, Alyzea, Astakos, Phoitia, Medeon, Thourion, and Metropolis. 

Alkmeon 
Akarnan, with... 
Amphoteros 
The Akarnanian League..................................5th cent. 
Allied to the Amphilochians 
Allied to Athens.............................5th cent.-391 
To Sparta..........................................39  1-371 
To Thebes..........................................37  1-300 
To Epirus..........................................30  0-273 
Allied to the Ætolian League.......................270-245 
To the Ætolian League..............................245-231 
2nd Akarnanian League..............................230-225 
To Macedonia.......................................22  5-197 
Within the Roman State from 197... 
Mnasilochos...................................190-189 
ALMOPIA They were located northwestern Macedonia, nowadays adm.div. of Pella, between the rivers Loudias and Axios and between the regions of Eordaea and Pelagonia. The region was inhabited by few people, who were isolated - therefore it was one of the first regions occupied by Macedonia. The primary cities were Orma, Apsalos, Europos, and Notia. 

Almopas 
To Macedon 
AONES Ancient inhabitants of Boeotia after the Ektines, regarded by other Hellenes as barbarians. They lived near Thebes, and came from Sounion (Attica) to Boeotia, together with Temmikes, Leleges, and Yandes. 

Aon (Aonia - later called Boeotia - was named after him) 
Defeated by the Cadmians 
Afterwards they lived between north of Thebes and Lake Yliki. 
APERANDOI They lived between the rivers Agraphiotes and Megdovas, to the Agrapha mountains, neighbours of the Agraeoi. They were an Ætolian sub-tribe. 

ATHAMANES They lived in northeastern Epirus, on Tzoumerka mountains and in part of the administrative division of Trikala. They were regarded by other Hellenes as a semi-barbarian tribe. Important cities of this tribe: Argothea (capital city) and Theodoria. 

Athamas 
To the Corinthian League........................c. 395-378 
To the 2nd Athenian League.........................378- 
During the 2nd Sacred War allied to Macedonia 
Opposed to Phocis 354 
Opposed to Macedonia 323 
Under the control of Macedonia 
Alliance with Pyrros of Epirus 
Theodoros.........................................  .fl. c. 205 
Amynandrus........................................  .fl. c. 201 
Formed an Athamanian League 
ATINDANES They lived in the region between Chaonia and Dodoni, in northwest Epirus. 

Allied to the tribe of Molossoi...................c. 429 
Allied to Rome....................................c. 229 
Allied to Macedonia..............................225-221 
To Macedonia.........................................  .....205 
AVANDES They lived in Euboea. They were a protohellenic tribe that came into Greece appr. 2100-1900 BCE. They had lived initially in Phocis (Avai) and some of them in Argolis, Sicyon, Epirus, and Asia Minor. 

Avas 
Elephinor 
Chalkodous 
After the Trojan war they colonized Illyria. 
They disappeared after the Ionian invasion on Euboea... 
BOEOTOI The region of Boeotia is northwest of Attica, nowadays one of the 52 administrative divisions of modern Greece. 

Boeotus 
Itonus 
Hippalcimus, with... 
Alector, and... 
Areilycus 
Leaders of the province during the Trojan war: 
Peneleus 
Leitos 
Arcesilaus 
Prothenor 
Klonios 
Three generations after the Trojan War the region was inhabited by the Boeotian tribe. They lived initially on the Boios mountain of Pindos, between Epirus and Macedonia. From there they moved to Arne between Thessaly and the Pagasitikos bay (till the end of the late Hellenic era). They claimed to be an Ætolian sub-tribe. 

Boeotos 
Opheltas......................................fl. 1150-1100 
Xanthos 
By the end of the monarchy, the tribe had colonized the whole region, by c. 950. 
1st Boeotian League................................525-480 
This consisted of the city-states of Thebes, Koronea, Aliartos, Tanagra, Thespies, while Orchomenos and Plataea remained independent, and Eleutheres and Erythres went to Athens. 
Allied to Persia..............................490-479 
2nd Boeotian League................................479-447 
3rd Boeotian League................................447-387 
Boeotia was divided into districts in this era. These were: 
a.) Thebais (including the cities of Thebes, Knopia, Ogchestos, Potniae, Kalydna, Therapnae, Schoinous, Peteon, Teumissos, Glisas, Yla, Foinikis, Tropheia), 
b.) Orchomenia or Phlegyandis or Andreis (Orchomenos, Askledon, Tegyra, Yettos, Achmones, Kyrtone), 
c.) Chaeronea, 
d.) Kopon (Kopes, Akraefnio), 
e.) Levadeia, 
f.) Koronea (Koronea, Alalkomemes, Tylfossion), 
g.) Aliartia (Aliartos, Medeon, Okalea), 
h.) Thespiki (Thespies, Eutrisi, Lefktra, Kerissos, Nisa, Askre, Ippotes, Thisvi, Korsies, Sifoi), 
i.) Plataeis (Plataea), 
j.) Tanagraea or Poimandria (Tanagra, Delio), 
k.) Parasopea (Eteonos, Skolos, Ysies, Erythres), 
l.) Tetrakomia (Phires, Aulis, Mykalessos, Arma, Eleion, Yrea), 
m.) Anthedon (Anthedon, Isos, Salganeas), 
n.) Larymna (Karsea, Ales), 
o.) Oropos 
4th Boeotian League................................378-338 
To Macedon.........................................33  8-245 
5th Boeotian League...........................336-146 
To Aetolia.........................................24  5-236 
To Macedon.........................................23  6-146 
To the Roman Republic..............................146-27 
6th Boeotian League.......................146 BCE-3rd cent. CE 
To the Roman Empire (dist. of Achaea 85 BCE)....27 BCE-395 CE 
CHAONES Ancient protohellenic tribe with a Pelasgian root. They lived in Epirus, between the Keraunia mountains and Kalamas river, therefore the first name of Epirus was Chaonia. They were related the the Chaones of southern.Italy. Important cities: Vouthroton, Ilion, Foenice, Panormos, Ogchismos, Amandia, Antigonea 

Chaon 
They developed a system relying on an annual leader. By the 5th century they had combined to a large degree with local Thesprotean and the Illyrian peoples. 
Allied to Ambracia against the Akarnanes..........428 
Photios and... 
Nikanor 
To the League of Epirus............................232-170 
To Rome..............................................  ..170 
DOLOPES An ancient Aetolian tribe, related to the Magnites. They lived in Acarnania, southern Thessaly, and Phthia. Their borders were Phthia and Aenianes (East), Eurytanes-Agraeoi (South), Amphilochia (West), Athamanes-Thessaliotis (North). Their capital city was Ktimeni; other important cities were Dolopeis, Ageiai, Menelais, and Ellopia. 

Dolops 
Ktimenes 
To Phthia 
Phoinikas 
Allied to Persia during the Persian Wars 
Opposed to Herakleia 420. 
To Pheres 374 
To Macedonia 344 
Allied to Athens 323 
To the Aetolian League 
To Macedonia 
Independent.......................................  .189-174 
DORIANS A major Hellenic group of closely related tribes or septs, the Dorians are regarded both in archeology and in legend as the conquerors of the Peloponessus. Initially they lived in the area near Mount Olympus, in the land of Doris. In the 12th century they began migrating southward, and three separate Doric tribes (Hylleis, Pamphyloi, and the Dymanes) settled in eastern and southern Peloponnesus, displacing the native Achaeans. The mythological account of this has it that these three groups were the descendents of three Herakleides (children of Herakles), Temenus, Aristodemus, and Cresphontes, who successfully recovered an inheritence lost to a cousin, Eurysthenes of Mycenae. They were a rather dour, plain-spoken, and harshly disciplined people - as their best-known branch, the Classic Age Spartans, personified greatly. The tension between themselves and the other great Hellenic people, the Ionians - who regarded Dorics as barely-literate, ill-mannered martinets - is at the heart of a great deal of Greek historical development. 

Doros 
Ægimios 
Yllos 
Colonization of the Peloponnesus..................from c. 1100 
Afterwards the Dorians colonized Megara, Argolis, Laconia, Messinia, Aegina, Milos, Thera, Crete, Rhodes and Corinth. 

DRYOPES Related to the tribe of Leleges, they were a barbaric tribe. They lived in the area between the mountains Oiti and Parnassus. They called their land Dryopis. Owing to Dorian pressure they evacuated their land and colonized Euboea,  Karystos, Styra, Cyprus, Kythnos, Argolis (Asine, Nemea), Messinia, and Epirus. Main city: Drys. 

Dryops 
Melaneus 
EKTINES The first inhabitants of Boeotea. 

Ogygos 
EORDAEA Ancient region (and tribe) in western Macedonia near the lake Vegoritis. Eordaea’s borders were Almopia-Lyngistis (North), Elimea (South), Imathia (East), Orestis (West). Inhabited during the late Bronze Age, the Eordoi were a proto-Hellenic, Indo-European that came to Eordaea appr. 2200 BCE. Nowadays there is the administrative division of Kozane. Main cities were Eordaea, Arnissa, Vegora and Kellas. Eordaea was the birthplace Ptolemy Lagos, the Macedonian general who gained the throne of Egypt. 

Eordos 
Destroyed by the Timenides of Macedonia 
Allied to the Greeks during the Persian wars 
EPEIOI A Pelasgian tribe in the western Peloponnesus, they lived in Elea, Pisatis, western Achaea, and the Echinades islands. Their cities: Vouprasion, Elida, Yrmine, Myrsinos, Olene, Dyme, Ephyra, Kyllene, Pylos, Aleisio. 

Epeios 
During the Trojan War there were 4 different kingdoms... 
Polyxenos and... 
Thalpios and... 
Andimachos and... 
Diores 
Many conjoined with Kaukones and Ionians and lived in Achaea (the Larissos River district). 
The Epeioi of Pisa combined with the Arcadians and dwelt lived in Pisatis. 
Agorios 
The remaining eventually melded with the Ætolians and lived in Elea; Elean sequence thereafter... 
EURYTANES An Ætolian sub-tribe, they lived in the district of Karpenissi (today :macoku gri: apital city of Evritania), between the mountains Panaitolikon and Tymfristos. Their borders were Aenianes (East), Dolopes (North), Aperandoi-Akarnanes (West), Aetolians (South), Thestians (Southwest), Ofionians (Southeast). During the prehistoric era they had probably lived in Thessaly. Their capital city was Oichalia. 

Eurytos 
Allied to the Ætolians 
From time to time to the Achaeans of Phthia, to Thessaly or to Macedonia 
To Rome 146 
GEFYRAEOI A non Hellenic tribe (Poinicians) They lived in Boeotia in the town Gefyra. Afterwards they moved into Attica It is claimed that they brought the alphabet into Greece. Homeland of Armodios and Aristogeiton, murderers of the Athenian tyrants Hippias and Hipparchus 

IDONOI They lived in western Thrace, between the rivers Strymon and Nestos  (nowadays there are the cities Drama and Zichne). Their land was called Idonis or Andandros. Important cities were Myrkinos (capital-city), Draviskos and Amphipolis. 

Idoneus 
Lykurgos 
Getas.............................................  .fl. c. 500 
To Persia during the Persian wars 
IONIANS One of the great pan-Hellenic tribal groups. They lived initially in southwestern Thessaly, but at a very early date migrated south. Some of them remained in southwestern Thessaly and others moved to west Locris, Achaea and Pisa. Afterwards they colonized Attica and Asia Minor. They also extensively settled the Cyclades, Euboea, Corinth, Megara, Epidaurus, and by the end of the Mycenean era they were in Attica, Megaris, Epidaurus, Troezin, Kynourua and Achaea. Defeated by the Achaeans, Minyes, Phlegyes and Lapithes, they remained largely in Attica, some of the islands, and most especially in western Asia Minor, which became known as "Ionia". They are to a large extent responsible for Greek literature, philosophy, and much Hellenic art (the Ionian dialect is the foundation upon which standard Classic Greek developed, which in turn gave birth to "Koine" (Common speech - the language of most of the New Testament), Byzantine dialects, and ultimately modern Greek. In acquiescing to Persian hegemony in Asia Minor during the 6th and 5th centuries, they earned the scornful contempt of the Peloponessian Dorians, who regarded Ionians as weak, compliant, mendacious, and very likely treasonous. It is this tension between the two groups which is at the heart of much of Greek historical development. 

Ion 
Partitioned into four sub-tribes: Geleondes, Oplites, Aegikoreis and Argadeis. 
KIKONES They lived between the Evros river and the Vistonis lake. They came there appr. 1300-1200 BCE. Their cities were Xantheia, Maronea, Ismaros, Zone and Kyzikos. 

Allied to Trojans 
Euphimos 
Mendes 
Their capital Ismaros was conquered by Ulysses after the Trojan war 
After the Mycenean era they disappeared as an identifiable people. 
KRESTONES The Kristones lived in Krestonia a Macedonian district between Chalkidicia and the Strymon river. They were a Pelasgo-Thracian sub-tribe. Important cities: Antigonea, Xylopolis, Terpyllos, Karavia, Kreston. 

To Mygdonia from 480 BCE 
LAPITHES The main inhabitants of early Thessaly, together with the centaurs (Northern Pelasgia-Perraivia). Their main cities: Argissa, Gyrtone, Orthe, Elone, Olossoi. They colonized Perraivia. In the 10th cent. they built a lot of cities in other regions (Koronos of Koronea, Phaliros of Phalara, Elatos of Elateia in Arcadia, Boeotia and Phocis, Phorvas and Triopas in Rhodes). 

Lapithus 
Ypseus 
Ixion 
Peirithous 
Kaeneas (his succestors were the Kypselides of Corinth) 
Koronos (his succestors were the Phylaides of Attica) with... 
Polypoites and... 
Leondeus (during the Trojan War) 
They were defeated by Ægimios, king of the Dorians... 
LELEGES Prehistoric tribe, they were nomads. 

Leles (from Laconia or Egypt) 
They colonized the Cyclades islands, Asia Minor, Aetolia, Acarania, Megara (King Leles), Locris, Leukas, Euboea, Boeotia and Lacedaemon (King Eurotas) 
Leleges from Sparta colonized Messinia (King Polykaon) 
Leleges from Megara colonized Pylos (Messinia) and Pylos (Elis) 
Leleges in Epirus were neighbors of the tribe of Molossoi 
In Thessaly they succeeded the Pelasgoi 
Evacuation of Ionia due to the Greeks 1200-1100 BCE 
Altis (King during the Trojan war - allied to the Trojans) 
After the Trojan war they inhabited Chios and Samos 
Evacuation of Caria owing to pressure from the tribe of Cares 
LYNGISTES They lived in Macedonia, in the Lyngystis Region (nowadays: Florina) and their capital-city was called Herakleia. An Illyrian tribe, they were neighbours of the Dassarites. Main cities were Herakleia, Kella, Vevi. 

VAKCHIADES 
Aeropos 
Vromeros 
Arrabaius.........................................  .fl. c. 423 
Argaeus...........................................  .fl. c. 391 
To Macedonia appr. 338 
MAGNITES They lived on Thessaly, in Magnesia, they were a Macedonian sub-tribe. Important tribe during the Neolithic, Bronze, Minoan and Mycenean ages. Their cities were: Mithone, Thaumakine, Melivoia, Olizon and Minyai. 

Magnes 
Prothous 
Philoktetes and... 
Medon (during the Trojan War) 
Continued independence until the 6th cent. 
To Thessaly..................................6th cent.-363 
To Pheres..........................................36  3-c. 342 
To Macedonia....................................c. 342-194 
Founding of Demetrias, capital city of Magnesia  293 BCE 
The Magnesian League...............................194-171 
Eurylochos........................................  193 
To Macedonia.......................................17  1-168 
To Rome - (within the Magnesian League)...........from 168 
MALIEIS They lived in southern Thessaly, a Dorian sub-tribe. The Malians were partitioned into three sub-tribes: Trachinioi, Paralioi, Iereis. Their capital city was Herakleia and afterwards Lamia. 

Within the Malis region (their land was named after them) from c. 1100 
Malos 
To the Amphictiony of Delphi.................8th cent.- ? 
Opposed to the Phoceans end 6th cent. 
To Thessaly 
To Sparta..........................................42  7-c. 371 
To Pheres.......................................c. 371-370 
To Thebes..........................................37  0-343 
To Macedonia.......................................34  3-220 
To the Ætolian league..............................220 
To Thessaly appr. 27 BCE 
MOLOSSOI An Epirote tribe dwelling in the north, who succeeded in gaining control over all of Epirus in late Classical times. They were best known for a breed of huge war-mastiffs they used in military operations. 

For their rulers, see the earliest (pre-Aeacid) leaders of Epirus. Molossus, their eponymous ancestor, was said to have been born of a union between Neoptolemus and Andromache. 
Established the Kingdom of Epirus, 6th or 5th centuries ? 
Epirus to the Aeacid dynasty 395. 
A League of Molossoi formed c. 300, within Epirote and then Roman jurisdiction. 
MYGDONES A Thracian tribe living in southern Macedonia between the rivers Axios and Strymon, in northern Chalkidicia, near the Thermaikos Gulf. Their cities were Therme, Sidos, and Chalestri. 

To Paeonia......................................to the 350's BCE 
To Macedonia thereafter... 
OETAEOI They lived on the mountain Oeti in southern Thessaly and in the 5th century in the valley of Aspos river. Important cities: Antikera, Anthile, Herakleia, Trachis. 

Opposed to Dorians and Trachineans 
Formed the Oeteanid League 
To the Aetolians...................................280-168 
To the Achaean League..............................162-146 
Free and independent for a time; then... 
To the Thessalian League thereafter... 
ORESTES They lived in Epirus in their land called Orestis, which was part of Molossia. They inhabited the northern and northwestern borders of Greece between the rivers Aous and Achelous. They claimed to be successors of Orestes of Mykenaea. Important cities were Orestia and Argos Orestikon. 

To Macedonia 
To the Orestian League of Orestes within Roman hegemony 
To the Roman district of Macedonia 
PAETOI A minor tribe living in the region called Paetike. Their most important city was Zerenia. 

To Persia and against the Greeks during the Persian wars  appr. 500-480 
To Macedonia, 336 
Against the Persians 334 
PELASGOI An Indo-European tribe, that came into the Hellenic region appr. 3000 BCE. They lived in western Thessaly and Epirus. Afterwards they colonized not only Argolis and Arcadia, but also some of the Aegean islands, Attica, Crete, Ionia, Achaea, Phocis, Phthiotis, Euboea, Kristonia and Sicyon. 

Pelasgos 
Chloros 
Most of them disappeared after the end of the Mycenean era, but some Pelasgian communities survived till the beginning of the 5th century BCE in Kristonia and Propontis. 

PERRAIVOI They lived in northern Thessaly, initially in the district of Istiaiotis. Their cities were Gonnoi, Olousson, Phalanna, Doliche, and the Perraivean Tripolis (3 cities) consisting of Azoros, Polichna, and Pythion. 

Triopas 
Karkavos..........................................  ..c. 1500 BCE 
Gouneus (during the Trojan war) 
To the Amphictiony of Delphi 
To Larissa 
To Archelaos of Macedonia 
Defeated by the Aetolian League........................199 
Members as free tribe in the Delphian Amphictiony......196 
They created a Perraivean League...................196-191 
To Macedonia.......................................19  1-185 
THE SEA PEOPLES Students of European history will be familiar in a general way with the phenomena of the devolution of Classic cultures, the swarming forth of innumerable barbarian tribes, and the subsequent emergence of the so-called "Dark Ages", together with the slow re-emergence of a vibrant civilization in the Mediaeval and Renaissance eras. Such a model is an oversimplification of what occurred, but it is valid at least in broad descriptive outline. What is perhaps less well recognized is that such a pattern has happened, albeit on a smaller scale, before. Before the 1200's BCE, the Eastern Mediterranean played host to a variety of sophisticated civilizations. For a variety of reasons, the 17th to 13th centuries BCE saw a general retreat, one which did not begin to reverse itself until the 9th century BCE (leading to the eventual flowering of Classic-Age civilization by the 5th century). One important factor in this process was the sudden emergence of a group of barbarian tribes known collectively as the Sea-Peoples. These raiders critically damaged the ancient civilizations of Greece, Anatolia and Syria, and seriously threatened the southern Levant and Egypt. The origins of these peoples are unknown, though it is believed that they emerged from the Aegean and may have been Minoan or Greek in origin. They referred to their own homeland as Ahhiyawa, which seems to be related to the word Achaean. The Hittites described their home as an island near Milawanda (Miletos, on the Ionian coast); which may refer to Rhodes, while the Bible describes their origin-point as Caphtor, which is believed to be Crete. They were technologically and artistically sophisticated, being one of the first groups in the Levant to use iron weapons. The following is a list of the documented Sea Peoples, and what linguists and archeologists believe about their origins and eventual fates... 

DANYA / DANNUNA They have been identified with the Danaoi, mentioned in Homer's Iliad; another, far-fetched explanation is that they are related to the Gaelic Celts (Danaan). Some historians and archeologists have suggested that the Danya invaded Canaan in alliance with the Philistines but then joined the Israelite tribal confederation as the tribe of Dan. The original territory of that tribe bordered Philistia, and the Philistines seemed to bear a particular grudge against the Danites, who eventually relocated to the Galilee. 

EKWESH This name is very similar to the Hittite name for Greeks (Acheans). Very little is known about them. 

LUKKA These are believed to have hailed from Lycia, and probably returned there after several unsuccessful invasions of Egypt. 

PELESHET These are the Philistines who settled in the southern coast of Canaan and established the pentapolis of Gaza, Gath, Ekron, Ashkelon and Ashdod. They may have invaded Canaan originally in alliance with the Israelites, who settled in the inland areas, but any collegiality quickly disappeared if Biblical records are anything to go by. The name Palestine, given to Judea by the Romans after the Jewish Wars, is believed to be derived from Philistine, although some scholars have suggested that it actually (ironically) comes from a derogatory Greek epithet for Jew. 

SHARDANA Formerly, it was thought that this people migrated out of the Hellenic region, crossed the central Mediterranean, and conquered Sardinia, which still bears a variant of their name. Recently though, it has been suggested that the migration was in the opposite direction - that they were aboriginal inhabitants of Sardinia who traveled eastward into the Hellenic littoral. 

TJEKER / SHEKELESH The Tjeker are of uncertain origin, but they raided Egypt repeatedly before settling in northern Canaan. They may originally have been the Teucri, a tribe inhabiting northwest Anatolia around Troy. They conquered the city-state of Dor and turned it into a Tjeker kingdom. They are one of the few of the Sea Peoples for whom a ruler's name is recorded - in the papyrus account of Wenamun, an Egyptian priest... 

·        Beder (Prince of Dor)........................mid 1000's BCE ? 

·        Dor fell to King David of Israel in the 990's, and the Tjeker are not mentioned after that date. 

Besides the Dorite Tjeker, some scholars believe that the Tjeker may have been connected in some way with the Israelite tribe of Menasseh. 

TYRSENNOI May be related to the Etruscans, since their name is similar to Tyrrhennoi, the Etruscans' name for themselves (hence the Tyrrhian sea). 

WESHESH Their origins are unknown, though there is some evidence that they may have come from the area of Caria. Some have theorized that they, like the Danya, became part of the Israelite confederacy (as the tribe of Asher).

TEMMIKES A barbarian tribe living in Boeotia before the Cadmians and the Boeotians. They came to Boeotia along with the Aones, Leleges, and Yandes. 

THESPROTIANS Their region was called Thesprotia. Nowadays Thesprotia is one of the 52 administrative division (nomoi) of Greece (capital-city: Preveza). They lived in Epirus between the Amvrikikos Bay and the Kalamas river and between Pindos mountains and the Ionian Sea. 

The first inhabitants.......................................  ..........Early Bronze Age 
Beginning of the middle Hellenic period the region had been inhabited by the tribes of Elopes, Greacians, Kassopaeoi, Dryopes, Dononians. They moved and colonized afterwards Ithaca, Leucas, Akarnania 
Partial colonization of Thessaly and S.Greece 12th-11th cent. 
Thesprotos 
Kallidice 
Isolated until appr. 730 BCE 
South Thesprotia was occupied by Eleans 7th cent. 
Allied to Corinth................................. ?  -5th cent. 
Allied to Athens and the kingdom of Molossoi.......415-404 
Occupation of Kassopaea, Dodoni, East Thesprotia by Molossoi after 400 BCE 
To the 2nd Athenian league.........................375-c. 350 
The Thesprotian League middle 4th cent. (cap-city: Elea, afterwards Titane) 
To Macedonia.......................................34  3-300 
To the League of Molossoi..............................300 
To Macedonia.......................................30  0-220 
To the Epirote League..............................220-167 
To Epirus............................................  ..167 
The Thesprotian League........................167-148 
Assigned as a district of Macedonia within Rome....148-27 
Assigned as a district of Achaea within the Roman Empire from 27 BCE 
The Thesprotians were divided into many sub-tribes: Aegestaeoi, Dodonians, Eleaeoi, Elinoi, Ephyroi, Ikadotoi, Kartatoi, Kestrinoi, Klauthrioi, Kropioi, Larissaeoi, Onopernoi, Opatoi, Tiaeoi, Torydaeoi, Fanoteis, Farganaeoi, Fylates, Chimerioi. 
Their main cities were Ephyra, Chimerion and Torine. 

VISALTES They lived in Macedonia, east of the Mygdonia region, between the Volvi lake and the Strymonas river 
Their cities were: Verge, Euporia, Kalliteres, Oreskia, Visaltia (capital-city). Before the 5th cent. Visaltie and Kristonia had a common history 

Mosses..........................................c. 500-480 
Demetrius.........................................  .fl. c. 450 
Vastareas.........................................  .....c. 350 
To Macedonia..............................4th cent. to 179 
Part of Mygdonian territory (within Macedon and then Rome) from 179... 
VISTONES They lived in the Rhodopi district to the Aegean sea, near Abdera. Their land was called Vistonea and it was between the Kikones and the Sapes regions. 

Vistonas 
Orpheus 
Diomedes (during the Trojan war) 
YANDES Proto-Hellenic tribe inhabiting Boeotia alongside the Aones, Leleges, and Temmikes. They lived near Thebes, and in later times colonized East Phocis (building the city of Yambolis), West Locris, and Aetolia.

*ps. Me  falni  qe  pertova  t'i  perkthej  ne  shqip, duke  menduar  se  debatuesit  e  njohin  gjuhen  angleze  dhe  do  dine  t'i perdorin  keto  te dhena  si  argumente  interesante  ne  kete  teme  qe  shpresoj  te  mos  prishet  nga  niveli  i  ulet  i  postimeve,  por  perkundrazi...*

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## Edvin83

> Edhe "Greket" me njeri tjetrin ne lufte ishin, sidomos ata qe ja kishin kunjen Spartes. Po si perfundim te "gjithe" "greke" u quajten. Si e shpjegon zoteria juaj kete gje ?
> 
> Cfare gjuhe flitnin Dardanet, Maqedonet dhe Iliret ? Si merreshe vesh Aleksandri me ushtaret e tij ?


Aleksandri nuk ishte ilir, nena e tij ishte nga fiset ilire kurse babai i tij Filipi ishte maqedon. Pse duhej qe iliret, dardanet te flsinin me maqedonet nuk e kuptoj?
Une po te jap nmje teori tjeter, *Maqedonasit ishin Ilire dhe jo Iliret Maqedone*

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## Edvin83

JA dhe nje harte tjeter qe t'ua bej te qarte se ku shtirhet Iliria.
Sa per Doriant, ata jane fis ilir qe erdhi nga veriu dhe formuan Greqine, dhe ishin shume te ngjashem me Dardanet, me kete mund te shpjegohet edhe numri i madh i fjaleve shqipe ne greqishten e vjeter dhe fjale te ngjashme me greqishten dhe gegerishten e sotshme.

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## ash

Achaeans versus Illyrian Dorians


*Greeks were not the first perpetrators to design a device that could eventuate in stealing historical events and twist the accounts of other people. Among the most despicable acts of theft has been the masterminded plan to plagiarize the Iliad. What would be considered a translation in modern times, was permissible rendering of Illyrian mythological elements into Greek official ideology.* The custom of depriving subjugated people of their own gods was practiced from the dawn of civilizations. The invaders would often adopt the gods of the conquered slaves in order to break their spirit and erase their memories. Yet no other invaders apart from Greeks has ever stolen the whole mythology of another people. *Not only Greeks stole the Iliad from Illyria but they even changed their own name from Greek into Helens 'people of the sun'.* Why did Greeks escape unnoticed for their transgression? The Roman invasion of Illyria the distraction of Illyrian royal records and libraries made the Greek theft invisible. *Unable to deal with the rising power of Illyria, weakened Greek city states invited Rome to destroy their annoying Illyrians and only after the fall of the culturally superior  neighbors did Greeks change the name into Helens*. The acceptance of the name Helen was not an indiscriminate act of surrender before the falsification of history. The very seeds of Greek civilization did not share the same genetic make up. The so-called Dark Ages of Greece, the pouring of Dorian tribes in Peloponnesus was actually an act of retribution for the distraction of Troy. Hence Achaeans finally paid a heavy price for destroying the Illyrian colonies in Asia Minor. The creation of Homeric songs and their impact on Greek psyche corresponded to the destruction of Mycenaean civilization in Greece by Dorian tribes. *But were Dorian people Greek by descent? The names of Dorian chieftains show that their origin was actually northern Illyrian where they rushed forth towards Greece*. Among Hylleis, Pamphyloi, and the Dymanes, the name of Hylleis (alb. hyllus 'star, sun') is not Greek at all while Dymanes is typically Illyrian, similar to Dymalus : 'two mountains'. Illyrian dynasties used to add the numbers dy- 'two', tri- 'three' in front of their names to symbolize the unique royal line of succession. The method of naming the leaders according to the royal parentage was typical of ancient monarchies. Because Greek people were actually a mixture of invading Achaeans and liberating Dorians the name Helen was considered to be a restoration of 'people of the sun' in their native land. Despite of common Indo European origin Achaean and Dorian were two different cultures. Not only language was different but even the architecture and burial customs were not the same. In the list of Hellenic tribes and cities, Illyrian names can be detected easily. 



*Nese  ndonjeri  eshte  i  ngeshem  i  lutem ta  perktheje  ne  shqip,  perndryshe  do  e perkthej  vete  sapo  te  kem pak  kohe  te  lire.*

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## gladiator

Teoria e Dorianve te qenit Ilire nuk mund te jete e vertete per vete faktin se fiset Doriane ne Greqi - Sparta, Argosi, etj, ishin krejt ndryshe jo vetem nga Iliret, por edhe nga Maqedonet dhe Epirotet qe ishin ne kufij me Greket. Gjuha, zakonet, organizimi politik, Greket i kishin krejt ndryshe nga Shqiptaret e lashte- Maqedonet, Dardanet, Iliret dhe Epirotet. Kurse fiiset para Doriane ne Greqi - Akajsit dhe Danaet, kishin shume gjera te perbashketa me Shqiptaret e lashte, dhe me fiset Pellazge te Azis Minore - Trojanet, Frygjian, etj. 
Mendimi im eshte se Akajsit e Homerit ishin Pellazge, te cilet luftuan kunder Pellazgeve te tjere ne Azi per supremaci territoriale. 
Homeri nuk ben ndonje dallim racial midis Trojaneve dhe Akejve, bile sipas tij te dy popujt flisnin nje gjuhe, ngaqe luftetaret e dy paleve nuk bizedonin me perkthyes para ndeshjes. Dialogu Akilit dhe Hektorit eshte i famshem, dhe ai i Diomedit dhe Glaukut, te cilet ne fund dolen miq. 
Nje fakt tjeter eshte se nqs Akejsit ishin Greke, athere si ka mundesi qe Greket nuk e kolonizuan atehere Trojen, por pasi e dogjen ata u kthyen ne Evrope vetem te shkaterrohen nga Dorianet pak me vone. Greket e pare te duken ne brigjet e Trojes ishin Jonet dhe Aolet 400 vjet pas luftes se Trojes. 
Pra, opinioni im eshte se Akejsit e Homerit ishin Pellazge te cilet u larguan nga tokat e tyre prej fiseve Greke - Dorianet, Aetolet, Ionet, etj. Keta si duket erdhen nga drejtimi Thrakias dhe nuk eshte cudi qe te dy popujt te ken ardh ne te njejten kohe ne Ballkan: ne shekullin e 12 PK, pak kohe pas luftes se Trojes, dhe jo sic mendohet ne shek 15 PK. 
Sigurisht kjo teori nuk do u pelqente Grekeve sepse ata me Iliaden mburren, por faktet historike nuk gabojne.

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## dizer7

O patriota, populli ka nevoje per krenari dhe per besim ne vetvete.
Jemi pasardhes te ILIREVE.Historia jone eshte e adhrueshme nga gjithe bota.
duhet ta pasurojme dhe ta mbrojme.kush e ve ne dyshim nuk e eshte Shqipetar i vertete,por tradhtar.
Tani sa per ato "te vervteta" qe shtroni ju,mbani mend nje gje :adams: jersa nuk jeni 
historjan,mos beni sikur i dini te gjitha.
flisni me mirkuptim dhe me deshiren per ti dhene historise shqiptare shkelqimin qe i takon dhe qe i ka munguar deri me sot.



DEPARTMENT OF UNITED STATES OF ALBANIA

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## Edvin83

Qe jemi pasardhes te ilireve kjo vertetohet vetem duke u nisur nga emri 
ILIR=i lirë, dardan=dardhan, po maqedon ca do te thote valle? Pse ky emer nuk eshte ne shqip dhe cfare argumenti na jep gladiatori per kete? Mos valle Macedon do te thote do mace?

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