# Çështja kombëtare > Historia shqiptare > Historia botërore >  Gjyqet e Nyrembergut.

## Toro

Nuremberg Trials


The Nuremberg Trials, or formally Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal were the trials of the most important Nazis. They were held in the German city of Nuremberg (Nürnberg), from November 14, 1945 to October 1, 1946. 
Creation of the Court 
At the meetings in Tehran (1943), Yalta (1945) and Potsdam (1945), the three major wartime powers of the USA, USSR and Britain had agreed the format to punish those responsible for war-crimes during World War II. France managed to gain a place on the tribunal too. Some 200 German war crimes defendants were tried at Nuremberg, but it is often overlooked that 1,600 German war crimes defendants were tried under the traditional channels of military justice. 

The Soviet Union had wanted the trials to take place in Berlin, however Nuremberg was chosen as the site for the trials for several reasons: 


convenient location in the American sector 
the Palace of Justice there was spacious and largely undamaged and a large prison was part of the complex 
because Nuremberg had been appointed "City of the party rallies", there was symbolic value in making it the place of the party's demise. 
It was also agreed that Berlin would become the permanent seat of the IMT and that the first trial (several were planned) would take place in Nuremberg. Because of the Cold War there were no subsequent trials. 

Each of the four countries provided one judge and an alternate; and the prosecutors. The judges were: 


Geoffrey Lawrence (British main and president) 
William Birkett (British alternate) 
Francis Biddle (US main) 
John Parker (US alternate) 
Henri de Vabre (French main) 
Robett Falco (French alternate) 
Iola Nikitchenko (Russian main) 
Alexander Volchkov (Russian alternate) 
The British prosecutor was Hartley Shawcross. 


The validity of the court 
The defendants were not allowed to complain about the selection of judges. Some people argue that, because of this, the Tribunal was not impartial and could not be regarded as a court in the true sense. The trial had all the trappings of a kangaroo court. A.L. Goodheart, Professor at Oxford, refuted this view, writing: 


"Attractive as this argument may sound in theory, it ignores the fact that it runs counter to the administration of law in every country. If it were true then no spy could be given a legal trial, because his case is always heard by judges representing the enemy country. Yet no one has ever argued that in such cases it was necessary to call on neutral judges. The prisoner has the right to demand that his judges shall be fair, but not that they shall be neutral. As Lord Writ has pointed out, the same principle is applicable to ordinary criminal law because 'a burglar cannot complain that he is being tried by a jury of honest citizens." The Legality of the Nuremberg Trials, Juridical Review, April 1946 
It is interesting to note that after the fall of Communism in 1991 there were no similar trials against Communist Gulag guards and mass murderers. For example Lazar Kaganovich, who was responsible for the artificial famine in Ukraine under Stalin during the 1920's was never brought to justice. 

The main Soviet judge, Nikitchenko, had taken part in Stalin's show trials of 1936-38, something which in later years may have damaged the credibility of the Nuremberg trials somewhat. The trials were conducted under their own rules of evidence; the indictments were created ex postfacto and were not based on any nation's law; the tu quoque defense was removed; and the entire spirit of the assembly was "victor's justice". All this did little to help the credibility of trials. But the spirit of the time was well reflected at Nuremberg - a long, brutal and extraordinarily costly war had been fought and the surviving leaders of the losing side could not expect to simply walk away from the disaster they had created. 


The main trial 

 The International Military Tribunal was opened on October 18, 1945, in the Supreme Court Building in Berlin. The first session was presided over by the Soviet judge, Nikitchenko. The prosecution entered indictments against 24 major war criminals and six "criminal organizations" - the leadership of the Nazi party, the SS and SD, the Gestapo, the SA and the High Command of the army. The indictments were for: 


Conspiracy to commit crimes against peace 
Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression 
War crimes 
Crimes against humanity 
The definition of what constitutes a war crime is described by the Nuremberg Principles, a document which came out of this trial. 

The twenty-four accused were: 


Martin Bormann. Indicted for 1, 3 and 4, he was found guilty of 3 and 4 and sentenced in absentia to death. 
Karl Doenitz, the initiator of the U-boat campaign and Hitler's designated successor. Indicted for 1, 2 and 3, he was found guilty of 2 and 3 and sentenced to 10 years of imprisonment. 
Hans Frank. Indicted for 1, 3 and 4, he was found guilty of 3 and 4 and sentenced to death. 
Wilhelm Frick. Indicted on all counts, he was found guilty of 2, 3 and 4 and sentenced to death. 
Hans Fritzsche. At the trial he was in a way a substitute for Joseph Goebbels. Indicted for 1, 3 and 4, he was acquitted. 
Walter Funk. Indicted on all counts, he was found guilty of 2, 3 and 4 and sentenced to life imprisonment. 
Hermann Göring, Commander of Luftwaffe. Indicted on all four counts, he was found guilty and sentenced to death. On the night before his execution he committed suicide. 
Rudolf Hess, Hitler's deputy, flew to England in 1941. Indicted on all four counts, he was found guilty of 1 and 2 and sentenced to life imprisonment. 
Alfred Jodl. Indicted and found guilty on all four counts, he was sentenced to death. 
Ernst Kaltenbrunner. Indicted for 1, 3 and 4, he was found guilty of 3 and 4 and sentenced to death. 
Wilhelm Keitel. Indicted and found guilty on all four counts, he was sentenced to death. 
Gustav Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach. He was indicted on all four counts as representative of German heavy industry and for armament production. Charges against him were dropped for health reasons. But the "Krupp Trial" took place before a US military court in Nuremberg in 1948. Krupp's son Alfried was sentenced to 12 years of imprisonment. 
Robert Ley. Indicted on all four counts, he committed suicide on October 26, 1945. 
Konstantin von Neurath. Indicted and convicted on all four counts, he was sentenced to 15 years of imprisonment. 
Franz von Papen. Indicted on counts 1 and 2, he was acquitted. 
Erich Raeder. Indicted on 1, 2 and 3, he was sentenced to life imprisonment. 
Joachim von Ribbentrop, the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Indicted and convicted on all four counts, he was sentenced to death. 
Alfred Rosenberg, the race theory evangelist. Indicted and found guilty on all four counts, he was sentenced to death. 
Fritz Sauckel. Indicted on all four counts, he was found guilty of 3 and 4 and sentenced to death. 
Hjalmar Schacht. Indicted on 1 and 2, he was acquitted. 
Baldur von Schirach, head of the Hitlerjugend, expressed repentance. Indicted on 1 and 4, he was found guilty and sentenced to from four to twenty years of imprisonment. Served twenty. 
Arthur Seyss-Inquart. Indicted on all four counts, he was found guilty of 2, 3 and 4 and sentenced to death. 
Albert Speer, responsible for several aspects of industry and a central figure in leadership, expressed repentance. Indicted on all four counts, he was found guilty of 3 and 4 and sentenced to from four to twenty years of imprisonment. Served twenty. 
Julius Streicher. Indicted on 1 and 4, he was sentenced to death. 
The medical experiments conducted by German doctors led to the creation of the Nüremberg code to control future trials involving human subjects, and the so-called Doctors' Trial. 


Influence on the development of international criminal law 
The Nuremberg trials had a great influence on the development of international criminal law. The International Law Commission, acting on the request of the United Nations General Assembly, produced in 1950 the report Principles of International Law Recognized in the Charter of the Nürnberg Tribunal and in the Judgment of the Tribunal (Yearbook of the International Law Commission, 1950, vol. III). The influence of the tribunal can also be seen in the proposals for a permanent international criminal court, and the draft international criminal codes, later prepared by the International Law Commission. 

The Nuremberg trials initiated a movement for the prompt establishment of a permanent international criminal court, eventually leading over fifty years later to the adoption of the Statute of the International Criminal Court.

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## Toro

Nje foto nga gjyqi:  Te pandehurit ne banken e te akuzuarve:
Ne radhen e  pare * Goering, Hess,fon Ribbentropp dhe Keitel* 
Ne radhen e dyte dallohen :* Doenitz,Raeder, Schirach, Sauckel*

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## antares

Nuk e kuptova se cfare kerkon te dije ai qe hapi temen.... Ky Gjyq ishte nje farse ku fitimtaret u hakmorren ndaj te humburve. Po te kishte perfunduar lufta ndryshe atehere do te shihnim Kasapet Cercill Ruzvelt e Stalin ne Gjyq!
Nga pikpamja juridike eshte e neveriteshme te denosh nje njeri per nje veprim te kryer ne kohen kur ky veprim nuk perbente krim.
Pastaj poshtersia dhe hipokrizia me e madhe ishte qe te "pandehurve" u ishte hequr e drejta te kundersulmonin me krimet (edhe me te renda) te bera nga "fitimtaret".
Kjo eshte drejtesia?

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## Toro

Une , si hapes i temes, ato qe doja te di, i di....ndryshe nuk do te te shkruaja per gjyqet e Nyrembergut. Dhe nuk me duket se kam shtruar dicka si pyetje! Pra kur nuk pyet dikush, nuk kerkon te dije dicka!

Vrasja e 6 milione cifuteve nuk perben krim?
Vrasja e 12 milione civileve , qytetare sovjetike nuk perben krim?

Shpallja e luftes duke shkelur me te dy kembet  traktatet dhe marreveshjet nderkombetar qe vete Gjermania kishte nenshkruar nuk perben krim?

Perseri nga pikepamja juridike, ne cilin liber juridik ke lexuar ti qe dikush qe urdheron vrasjen e mijera e miliona njerezve te lihet i lire dhe te mos denohet?

Cilat na paskerkeshin qene krimet me te renda te bera nga fitimtaret ( keta nuk jane ne thonjeza sepse me te vertete e fituan luften)? I vetmi rast qe ti mund te me permendesh eshte bombardimi i Drezdenit...se me teper s'besoj te dish... Po krahasoje pak ate bombardimin e Drezdenit me bombardimin e Varshaves,Gdanskut, Kievit, Rostovit, Londres, Beogradit etj, meso pak sesi Gjermania i shpalli lufte gjithe botes dhe pastaj fol per "drejtesi". Drejtesia qe kerkon ti ekziston vetem ne imagjinaten e njerezve te semure, qe perpara se ti japin te drejte viktimes, hapin gojen dhe flasin per te drejtat e kriminelit.

Por meqe na qenke "eksperte" e juridikes, ne cilin manual te ushtrise gjermane te luftes se dyte na behet fjale per asgjesimin e civileve, kampet e shfarosjes ne mase, raprezaljet ndaj popullates?

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## Ryder

Qe gjygjet e Nurembergut ishin farse per te nxjerrur dufin ket e pranojne edhe vete aleatet sot...per vete faktin qe nder te tjera te akuzuarve nuk i esht lejuar te permendin krimet e aleateve...kshuqe kane pasur mbrojtje te cale. 

Kurse traktatet dhe marreveshjet qe shkeli Gjermania me shpalljen e luftes ishin pjese e traktatit te Versajes qe e copetoi pas luftes se pare boterore. 
Keto marreveshje e lane Gjermanine me ekonomi te shpartalluar, taksa ne stratosfere, territore te aneksuara dhe republiken e lekundur te Weimarit e cila drejtohej nga po ata cifute qe shiten dorezimin e Gjermanise ne luften e pare.

Imagjino ca fryme ka pas ne Gjermani atehere kur pas ketyre masave turperuese te dilnin prap cifuto-komunistet me fetyre nga bolsheviket ruse duke i dhene shpulle fetyres patriotizmit gjerman...kshuqe ne ato kondita esht normale qe do preket palca nacionaliste. 
Literatura historike e fituesit gjithmon duhet te shihet me rezerva...sidomos per luften e dyte boterore qe rralle ka ndonje veper te pa-anshme. 

ps: Krimet e NKVD-se ruse gjate luftes (mbi aleatet e tyre polake biles) mund te krahasohen krejt lehte me aktet e Einsatzgruppen-SS (qe ruanin kampet).

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## Toro

Dmth sipas teje Ryder, ne nje ceshtje civile, na qenkerka evidence mbrojtjeje krimi qe mund te kete bere mbi ty kundershtari yt, pasi ti e ke sulmuar ate i pari?

Ne gjyqet e Myrembergut nuk u gjykuan aleatet, por u gjykuan ata 20-24 persona nga ana e gjermaneve. Ti e gjykon historine dhe "fallsitetin" e gjyqeve me kushtet e vitit 2004, jo me kushtet historike te vitit 1945. Pra pak a shume si "historianet" tane te socializmit  qe ne librat shkollore na e gjykonin Skenderbeun si feudal dhe me mentalitetin e materializmit dialektik ne 1970, per dicka qe kishte ndodhur 4 shekuj me pare se te shpikej komunizmi si teori!!!! Helloooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

Ata persona qe u denuan nga gjyqet e Nyrembergut i kishin bere ato krime apo jo? PO.  Ku qendron pra padrejtesia ne gjykimin e tyre se nuk po e marr vesh?

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## Ryder

Un s'po mohoj krimet e askujt (megjithse jan paraqitur shum te egzagjeruara) vec po them nje te vertete qe njihet boterisht sot qe gjygjet e Nurembergut kane qene farse. Procedura gjygjesore ka qene farse.
S'mund te jete farse gjygji i nje krimineli sipas teje? Drejtesia duhet te jete e njejte per te gjithe si per te pafajshmin si per Jack the Ripperin. 

Plus qe sic mund ta dish zinxhiri i komandes ne NSDAP s'ka qene hierarki e mirefillte prandaj edhe ne gjygj do te ishte e veshtire te nxirrnin blueprint se ku mbaronte Lufta dhe ku fillonin Krimet ndaj popullsise civile.

PS: Pa lidhje me temen kjo...mendoj qe Yalta ka qene pika ku Shqiperia (dhe Europa e Lindjes) ju shit Stalinit dhe e hengri manallin ne sume per 50 vjet rresht, prandaj s'kam pas nejher simpati per Aleatet ne WW2 dhe aleancave te tyre me Bolsheviko-Marksisto-Mongolet ruse. Ashtu sic nuk kam pasur simpati per Britaniket per copetimin qe i kan bere Shqiperise bashk me ndihmen e sllavo-italianeve. 
Nga ana tjeter planet e vetme te nje shteti europian per bashkimin e trojeve shqiptare kane ardhur nga Gjermania e asaj kohe.

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## bebushe

> Une , si hapes i temes, ato qe doja te di, i di....ndryshe nuk do te te shkruaja per gjyqet e Nyrembergut. Dhe nuk me duket se kam shtruar dicka si pyetje! Pra kur nuk pyet dikush, nuk kerkon te dije dicka!
> 
> Vrasja e 6 milione cifuteve nuk perben krim?
> Vrasja e 12 milione civileve , qytetare sovjetike nuk perben krim?
> 
> Shpallja e luftes duke shkelur me te dy kembet  traktatet dhe marreveshjet nderkombetar qe vete Gjermania kishte nenshkruar nuk perben krim?
> 
> Perseri nga pikepamja juridike, ne cilin liber juridik ke lexuar ti qe dikush qe urdheron vrasjen e mijera e miliona njerezve te lihet i lire dhe te mos denohet?
> 
> ...


Ajo qe kane bere Gjermanet dhe Hitleri i tyre i dashur eshte krim po le ti gjykoje zoti tani , Gjermania e rimekembi veten dhe kjo tregoi qe ata dine si popull te mesojne nga e kaluara..


jo si ca popuj te tjere lol

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## Toro

> Un s'po mohoj krimet e askujt (megjithse jan paraqitur shum te egzagjeruara) vec po them nje te vertete qe njihet boterisht sot qe gjygjet e Nurembergut kane qene farse. Procedura gjygjesore ka qene farse.
> S'mund te jete farse gjygji i nje krimineli sipas teje? Drejtesia duhet te jete e njejte per te gjithe si per te pafajshmin si per Jack the Ripperin.


Marrjen e jetes se miliona njerezve sado pak te ekzagjeruar ta paraqesesh eshte perseri KRIM dhe nuk pushon se qeni marrje jete!
Per ty ose shume te tjere qe kane hedhur ndonji sy shkarazi neper faqe interneti ku dominojne revizionistet e historise se LIIB ,gjyqet e Nyrembergut mund te jene farse. Eshte e drejta jote ta quash te tille. Por per miliona njerez pas LIIB, qe kane jetuar tmerret e nazisteve ne realitet, jo nga kinemaja si ti,  keto gjyqe kane qene mese te drejta dhe te paanshme. 
Mos harro se ne Gjyqet e Nyrembergut u denuan 20 vete, por nga vete gjermanet, ne gjyqet  gjermane te denazifikimit u denuan mbi 20 mije eksponente dhe kriminele.





> Plus qe sic mund ta dish zinxhiri i komandes ne NSDAP s'ka qene hierarki e mirefillte prandaj edhe ne gjygj do te ishte e veshtire te nxirrnin blueprint se ku mbaronte Lufta dhe ku fillonin Krimet ndaj popullsise civile.


Une kur e hapa temen, me duket se e hapa duke shkruajtur fakte ( pavaresisht se ti ose dikush tjeter mund ti veri ne dyshim- e drejta juaj). Po qe se di dicka mbi temen, ec me sill fakte, jo ndonji fjale te degjuar larte e poshte. Je i mirepritur te diskutosh me argumenta.



> PS: Pa lidhje me temen kjo...mendoj qe Yalta ka qene pika ku Shqiperia (dhe Europa e Lindjes) ju shit Stalinit dhe e hengri manallin ne sume per 50 vjet rresht, prandaj s'kam pas nejher simpati per Aleatet ne WW2 dhe aleancave te tyre me Bolsheviko-Marksisto-Mongolet ruse. Ashtu sic nuk kam pasur simpati per Britaniket per copetimin qe i kan bere Shqiperise bashk me ndihmen e sllavo-italianeve. 
> Nga ana tjeter planet e vetme te nje shteti europian per bashkimin e trojeve shqiptare kane ardhur nga Gjermania e asaj kohe.



Sa per dijeni, Shqiperia as qe u zu fare ne refene ne Jalte. Ishte lene e pasdore dhe mbas LIIB ishte i vetmi shtet qe ishte lene ne vullnetin e tij dhe ne manipulimet e paleve "aleate" anglo-amerikane dhe sovjetike, por pa perdorur forca ushtarake. Dhe eshte fakt se Stalini si frikacak qe ishte nuk guxoi te dergonte asnje ushtarak si gjate luftes ashtu dhe menjehere pas perfundimit te saj, madje as atashe ushtarak nuk ka pasur ambasada sovjetike ne Tirane deri ne 1947 ( kur u prishem me jugosllavet).  Perkundrazi ne te gjitha shtetet qe i takonin kampit sovjetik shkeli kemba e ushtarit sovjetik. Ne Shqiperi jo!!!!!
Nga ana tjeter meqe Shqiperia nuk ishte permendur ne Jalte, por ama forca dominuese pas lufte ishin komunistet, as anglo-amerikanet nuk zbarkuan dhe nuk nderhyne ushtarakisht duke mos dashur te egersonin Stalinin.

Pra Shqiperise nuk ja pati fajin as Amerika, as Anglia, as Rusia per renien ne kampin socialist, por ra viktime e nje sharlatani dhe nje karrieristi si Enver Hoxha qe per te mbajtur karriken e vet ia shiti atdheun Jugosllavise e Titos. Ndoshta je i vogel dhe nuk e ke degjuar qe ne vitin shkollor 1946-1947 ishte serbo-kroatishtja si gjuhe e huaj ne shkollat e mesme!!!! As frengjishtja, as anglishtja, as rusishtja!!!!

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## Ryder

Prit iher prit...dmth jam i vogel, e kam msu historine nga kinemaja (se ka shum filma pro-Nazi) dhe po flas fjale qe kam degjuar lart e posht neper internet...sinqerisht ta kam zili gjith ket pasion te flakte qe ke per historine aq sa e ve veten ne pozicion beteje megjithmend. Sa vjec ke qen ti ne 47-ten meqe ra fjala?  
Un kam pas njerez qe kan ra nga 25 vjet burgje e internime vetem se kan fol per bashkim kombetar...tabu kjo per vete faktin qe Shqiperia kishte ra ne influencen sllavo-komuniste e cila u vendos ne Yalte...Shqiperia s'kishte as nevoje te permendej sepse ishte vec nje grimce qe ra ne vorbull.
Tashi qetesohu iher masnej flasim...

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## darwin

> Une , si hapes i temes, ato qe doja te di, i di....ndryshe nuk do te te shkruaja per gjyqet e Nyrembergut. Dhe nuk me duket se kam shtruar dicka si pyetje! Pra kur nuk pyet dikush, nuk kerkon te dije dicka!
> 
> Vrasja e 6 milione cifuteve nuk perben krim?
> Vrasja e 12 milione civileve , qytetare sovjetike nuk perben krim?
> 
> Shpallja e luftes duke shkelur me te dy kembet  traktatet dhe marreveshjet nderkombetar qe vete Gjermania kishte nenshkruar nuk perben krim?
> 
> Perseri nga pikepamja juridike, ne cilin liber juridik ke lexuar ti qe dikush qe urdheron vrasjen e mijera e miliona njerezve te lihet i lire dhe te mos denohet?
> 
> ...



oboboo. po pse vetem nga BigBrother e paske lexuar historine ??
sshh. mos e ngaterro me filmat   :sarkastik:

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## darwin

_...One month before the end of World War 11, General Eisenhower issued special orders concerning the treatment of German Prisoners and specific in the language of those orders was this statement, "Prison enclosures are to provide no shelter or other comforts." Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose, who was given access to the Eisenhower personal letters, states that he proposed to exterminate the entire German General Staff, thousands of people, after the war. Eisenhower, in his personal letters, did not merely hate the Nazi Regime, and the few who imposed its will down from the top, but that he hated the German people as a race. It was his personal intent to destroy as many of them as he could, and one way was to wipe out as many prisoners of war as possible.
Of course, that was illegal under International law, so he issued an order on March
10, 1945 and verified by his initials on a cable of that date, that German Prisoners
of War be redesignated as "Disarmed Enemy Forces" called in these reports as DEF. He ordered that these Germans did not fall under the Geneva Rules, and were not to be fed or given any water or medical attention. The Swiss Red Cross was not to inspect the camps, for under the DEF classification, they had no such authority or jurisdiction. Months after the war was officially over, Eisenhower's special German DEF camps were still in operation forcing the men into confinement, but denying that they were prisoners. As soon as the war was over, General George Patton simply turned his prisoners loose to fend for themselves and find their way home as best they could. Eisenhower was furious, and issued a specific order to Patton, to turn these men over to the DEF camps. Knowing Patton as we do from history, we know that these orders were largely ignored, and it may well be that Patton's untimely and curious death may have been a result of what he knew about  these wretched Eisenhower DEF camps..._


*ndonje koment ne lidhje me kete ???*

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## darwin

> Pra Shqiperise nuk ja pati fajin as Amerika, as Anglia, as Rusia per renien ne kampin socialist, por ra viktime e nje sharlatani dhe nje karrieristi si Enver Hoxha qe per te mbajtur karriken e vet ia shiti atdheun Jugosllavise e Titos. Ndoshta je i vogel dhe nuk e ke degjuar qe ne vitin shkollor 1946-1947 ishte serbo-kroatishtja si gjuhe e huaj ne shkollat e mesme!!!! As frengjishtja, as anglishtja, as rusishtja!!!!



ndoshta, *per Shqiperine*, do te ishte me mire sikur te kishte qene gjermanishtja !!!  (apo me shume rendesi ka si shkon bota sesa atdheu yt   :Globi:  ) ???

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## Toro

> _...One month before the end of World War 11, General Eisenhower issued special orders concerning the treatment of German Prisoners and specific in the language of those orders was this statement, "Prison enclosures are to provide no shelter or other comforts." Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose, who was given access to the Eisenhower personal letters, states that he proposed to exterminate the entire German General Staff, thousands of people, after the war. Eisenhower, in his personal letters, did not merely hate the Nazi Regime, and the few who imposed its will down from the top, but that he hated the German people as a race. It was his personal intent to destroy as many of them as he could, and one way was to wipe out as many prisoners of war as possible.
> Of course, that was illegal under International law, so he issued an order on March
> 10, 1945 and verified by his initials on a cable of that date, that German Prisoners
> of War be redesignated as "Disarmed Enemy Forces" called in these reports as DEF. He ordered that these Germans did not fall under the Geneva Rules, and were not to be fed or given any water or medical attention. The Swiss Red Cross was not to inspect the camps, for under the DEF classification, they had no such authority or jurisdiction. Months after the war was officially over, Eisenhower's special German DEF camps were still in operation forcing the men into confinement, but denying that they were prisoners. As soon as the war was over, General George Patton simply turned his prisoners loose to fend for themselves and find their way home as best they could. Eisenhower was furious, and issued a specific order to Patton, to turn these men over to the DEF camps. Knowing Patton as we do from history, we know that these orders were largely ignored, and it may well be that Patton's untimely and curious death may have been a result of what he knew about  these wretched Eisenhower DEF camps..._
> 
> 
> *ndonje koment ne lidhje me kete ???*



Po, Duajt Ajnzenhaueri si duket i paska urryer shume gjermanet....Ndoshta ngaqe i kane njohur me mire !!!!! E ema dhe i ati ishin gjermane ( te lindur ne Gjermani dhe emigruan ne SHBA ne fillim te shekullit XX), ndersa ai vete, Duajt Ajzenhauer eshte nje nga gjermano-amerikanet , te cilet luftuan kunder "bashkepatrioteve" te tij qe i vune zjarrin botes.....

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## darwin

> Po, Duajt Ajnzenhaueri si duket i paska urryer shume gjermanet....Ndoshta ngaqe i kane njohur me mire !!!!! E ema dhe i ati ishin gjermane ( te lindur ne Gjermani dhe emigruan ne SHBA ne fillim te shekullit XX), ndersa ai vete, Duajt Ajzenhauer eshte nje nga gjermano-amerikanet , te cilet luftuan kunder "bashkepatrioteve" te tij qe i vune zjarrin botes.....




hahaha, kjo po qe ishte e bukur !!!    :pa dhembe:  

Duajt Ajzenhauer ka qene hebre me origjine te larget suedeze, dhe ne akademine e West Point ku dhe  ka studiuar thirrej ""IKE, THE TERRIBLE SWEDISH JEW"..

ne asnje menyre nuk ka qene gjerman !!

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## darwin

> ...Duajt Ajzenhauer eshte nje nga gjermano-amerikanet , te cilet luftuan kunder "bashkepatrioteve" te tij qe i vune zjarrin botes.....



zjarrin botes    :kryqezohen:  ???!!!!!! eh, pa merak se do diskutojme gjate per kete ceshtje, per te pare se "nga erdhen drute qe iu hodhen zjarrit" !!!
po tani u be mengjez.. dite tjeter,  :shkelje syri:

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## Toro

> hahaha, kjo po qe ishte e bukur !!!    
> 
> Duajt Ajzenhauer ka qene hebre me origjine te larget suedeze, dhe ne akademine e West Point ku dhe  ka studiuar thirrej ""IKE, THE TERRIBLE SWEDISH JEW"..
> 
> ne asnje menyre nuk ka qene gjerman !!



Nuk e di ku i ke marre te dhenat, por ne te gjitha faqet e gjermano-amerikaneve permendet qe Ajzenhaueri eshte gjerman!!!

Urdhero se cfare shkruhet ne njeren prej tyre:

The names of many of the German immigrants to America are well known on both sides of the Atlantic; and if I mention some tonight, they serve only as examples of those who have energized American life and culture. There is - as the first of these - Franz Daniel Pastorius, the founder of Germantown, a prophetic figure who projected a clear vision of the kind of country that the United States was to become. In advocating the separation of church and state, tolerance of religious and ethnic diversity, and the abolition of slavery, he was well ahead of his time. Another was William Rittenhouse, a minister and papermaker from Muehlheim on the Ruhr, whose great grandson, David Rittenhouse, served as the first director of the United States mint and achieved lasting fame as a mathematician, astronomer, and inventor. Thomas Jefferson was moved to say of him: "He has not indeed made a world, but he has intimately approached nearer its maker than any man who has lived." There was the printer, journalist, and publisher - Christopher Saur who was the first to print the bible in a European language in America. A more famous immigrant was John Peter Zenger who is still known in the United States as the "patron saint" of freedom of the press.* And there was Hans Nikolaus Eisenhauer, an immigrant from Eiterbach, in what is now southern Hesse, who arrived in America in the middle of the 18th century, achieved neither wealth nor fame, but became the ancestor of Dwight David Eisenhower - the 34th President of the United States.*

Ne cilendo makine kerkimi te internetit te shtypesh fjalet "german-american" do te gjesh perpara emrin e Ajzenhauerit...si dhe te admiralit Chester Nimitz!!!

Nuk po shtoj komente te tjera.

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## darwin

> Nuk e di ku i ke marre te dhenat, por ne te gjitha faqet e gjermano-amerikaneve permendet qe Ajzenhaueri eshte gjerman!!!
> 
> * And there was Hans Nikolaus Eisenhauer, an immigrant from Eiterbach, in what is now southern Hesse, who arrived in America in the middle of the 18th century, achieved neither wealth nor fame, but became the ancestor of Dwight David Eisenhower - the 34th President of the United States.*
> 
> Nuk po shtoj komente te tjera.



 :sarkastik:  

Eisenhower's birth in Denison, Texas on October 14, 1890, the son of *Jacob David Eisenhower* and his wife Ida.

nuk para ka gjerman qe quhen Jacob, apo jo  ??

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## Toro

Pse mos punon gje ne gjendjen civile te Nyrembergut ti keshtu? Dhe na ditke a e mbajene emrin Jacob gjermanet? Emri Jacob ashtu si 80% te emrave kristinane jane cifute. 

Por meqe insiston, une po te jap dy persona , gjermane me emrin Jacob ( e kishin gjate LIIB!!!!)

1)Jacob Von Sporrenburg- SS Gruppenfuhrer und General Leiutenant der Polizei, me detyra gjate LIIB ne Norvegjine e Jugut dhe ne Lublin te Polonise.

2)Jacob Grobben, - SS Sturmbarnfurher und Major der SchutzPolizei, me detyre gjate LIIB ne Danimarke....

Sic e shikon....emer cifut mund te kete pasur dhe nje gjeneral i Gestapos dhe nje major i policise sekrete te Rajhut te III.....

Dhe tema jane gjyqet e Nyrembergut, jo origjina e Ajzenhaurit...Nese deshironi te diskutoni per teme tjeter nga e tashmja, ju lutem kini miresine te hani nje teme te re!

Ju faleminderit!

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## darwin

> Pse mos punon gje ne gjendjen civile te Nyrembergut ti keshtu? Dhe na ditke a e mbajene emrin Jacob gjermanet? Emri Jacob ashtu si 80% te emrave kristinane jane cifute. 
> 
> Por meqe insiston, une po te jap dy persona , gjermane me emrin Jacob ( e kishin gjate LIIB!!!!)
> 
> 1)Jacob Von Sporrenburg- SS Gruppenfuhrer und General Leiutenant der Polizei, me detyra gjate LIIB ne Norvegjine e Jugut dhe ne Lublin te Polonise.
> 
> 2)Jacob Grobben, - SS Sturmbarnfurher und Major der SchutzPolizei, me detyre gjate LIIB ne Danimarke....
> 
> Sic e shikon....emer cifut mund te kete pasur dhe nje gjeneral i Gestapos dhe nje major i policise sekrete te Rajhut te III.....
> ...



pergezime per JACOB + SS searching on google !! megjithate origjina e tij nuk diskutohet fare.. IT's a kike !!

Une dyshoj te gjyqi i Nurembergut persa kohe do te kete padrejtesi te tjera qe mendoj qe as duhet te keni degjuar, jo me te jene procesuar ne ndonje proces nderkombetar ! 

P.sh, pas perfundimit te luftes se Pare Boterore dhe nenshkrimit te armpushimit (JO dorezimit dhe shpalljen fajtore te gjermaneve !!, po them vetem per armpushimin qe u nenshkrua ne nentor 1918)  Aleatet vazhduan bllokaden detare ndaj Gjermanise edhe per 8 muaj te tjere, *DUKE THYER QARTESISHT CDO LLOJ LOGJI QE KISHIN NENSHKRUAR VETE*, dhe si pasoje me qindra mijera gjermane vdiqen nga uria..  t

Qe te jete bere ndonje gjyq per kete pune une nuk kam degjuar, po ju a e dini te pakten si histori ?? ka ndodhur njezet e kusur vjet para gjyqit te Nurembergut.
Po ka dhe plot gjera te tjera, qe meqenese je ne US nuk besoj se i jep FoxNews !!
po i them keto gjera, sa per te shperndare harten e mizorise ne kete bote, dhe jo  *double-standarts* sepse sinqerisht eshte bere e merzitshme historia qe jep Televizori !!

pershendetje edhe juve..  :shkelje syri:

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